SWAP CABLE TV for ANTENNA TV - KEEPING ISP

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by Richard Paracka, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Richard Paracka

    Richard Paracka New Member

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    Feb 1, 2019

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    I understand what you're advising, but other persons suggest that FIOS is somehow different and that if my TV signal from Frontier Communications is terminated (retaining ISP service) I can still use the existing COAX in my walls to send signal to other rooms via my Verizon router/bridge.

    TiVo Customer Support examined my Roamio remotely
    and said all I have to do is remove the cable TV COAX from my Roamio COAX input and screw in my antenna COAX and I'm all set - signal to the whole house and everything. My ethernet line from Roamio to the MoCA adapter would do the networking job......they say...

    On the other hand, if I completely isolate my FIOS COAX, then a second bridge would have to be installed and I've been advised against doing that.

    I believe the dispute (and my confusion) is based upon whether MoCA is designed to transmit an rf signal via COAX or whether its designed to transmit an ethernet signal via COAX. If our attention is paid to rf via COAX, then frequency issues arise. If our attention is paid to ethernet via COAX, then frequency issues shouldn't be a problem. But that's as far as my addled brain can go today.....

    thanks for everyone's help.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Are you OK with connecting the Roamio DVR via a Cat6/Ethernet connection directly to the FiOS router?
     
  3. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    This is the first time you mentioned that your Tivo is connected to ethernet already. In that case, Tivo support is correct. You started the thread wanting to put OTA and internet on the same wire, which we've been trying to tell you will not work. I was afraid you were drowning in details, so I just trying to simplify without really knowing any details of your setup. What you had provided up to now was incomplete, confusing and contradictory.
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Given your antenna can directly connect to the Roamio, and that you only want/need the raw OTA signal at the Roamio, TiVo Customer Support is surprisingly correct.

    Just switch the Roamio coax input from the MoCA adapter pass-through to the antenna feed, and re-run Guided Setup to switch to an antenna connection and you should be set. Your networking would remain unchanged from present, but the Roamio would now be fed the OTA signal rather than the FiOS feed. And due to the antenna connecting directly to the Roamio, no MoCA signals will be present on the antenna coax line and so a "PoE" MoCA filter would not be required on the antenna line. (Some would suggest capping the unused MoCA adapter pass-through port with a 75-ohm terminator.)

    Re: the earlier question about connecting the DVR via Ethernet to the router... The Roamio doesn't NEED to be MoCA-connected, though it offers the advantage of TiVo-to-TiVo traffic avoiding the router. So ... if the Roamio were connected to the router directly via Ethernet, the MoCA adapter could be removed from the setup.
     
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  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    To be fair, the very first post indicated that the Roamio is currently networked via a MoCA adapter:

    Not "we"; FiOS Internet-only and OTA can and have been employed on the same coax, per the linked thread. And it's understandable why the OP was pursuing that path, since they were looking to simply supplant the FiOS TV signals with OTA -- forbidden with cable but doable with FiOS -- and keep everything as-is. But what was incomplete was whether they actually needed to put the OTA signal on the shared coax, resolved on clarifying that they only need the raw OTA signal at the DVR and that a direct connection is available.
     
  6. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    New Mexico...
    OP, you have been given all the answers in this thread - in particular, I stated it clearly in post 10 and provided an additional explanation to help you understand and believe it in post 13. This same info was repeated in post 24. There is actually very little conflicting information in this thread - just people trying to fill in the blanks were you did not provide full and clear information for us to help you.

    Much to the surprise of many of us, TiVo support even seems to have given you a complete and correct answer, and we told you that too.

    But your last post shows that for some reason you do not want to believe what you have been told. In particular, you continue to fantasize about using a second bridge . . . and the Roamio outputting an RF signal like an old VCR. NOBODY in this thread has suggested a second bridge except you, and I told you that you should never do that. There is absolutely NO scenario that you could dream up for your situation where you could use a second bridge.

    At this point I do not know what your problem is with believing us. If you are actually unable to understand the responses, then I am sorry, but I do not know what else to tell you. If you are not willing to believe us, or AT LEAST TEST what you have been told, then why are you here?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Holy god, people, what is our problem!?! Where is the trigger for the angst, let alone the abusiveness?

    Yes there is. Isolate the FiOS coax connection to the direct connection between the ONT and the router, as was the first suggestion made to them “because cable and OTA can’t coexist" ...
    ... and the built-in MoCA of the router is then unavailable to the TiVos. To maintain their current MoCA setup for the TiVo boxes, the OP would then need a MoCA adapter at the FiOS router and the existing MoCA adapter at the Roamio ... 2 MoCA adapters.

    And the OP has been working to resolve conflicting recommendations ever since, a difficult task for someone unfamiliar with the subject.

    Objectively, there are plenty of conflicting recommendations or technical tangents in this thread and additional blanks being created -- which is just as much on those responding as the OP, for throwing out any number of suggestions on what to do rather than simply emphasizing that the requirements and existing environment be clarified, awaiting or soliciting the "full and clear information" needed before publishing one of many possible solution permutations. Nothing wrong with the latter, in my opinion, but it's unrealistic to think the ultimately correct solution can't get lost in the noise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    If I understand what you're implying, no, MoCA isn't simply re-broadcasting the received OTA or cable TV signal. MoCA is a network signal sent via RF over coax (at a frequency compatible/non-conflicting with OTA or cable signals), much like Wi-Fi is a network signal via RF but unconstrained by a physical media:

    OTA: 54-806 MHz
    cable (TV/Internet): 5-1002 MHz
    MoCA (D band): 1125-1675 MHz

    MoCA is just another competing networking protocol to Ethernet (IEEE 802.3 standards), like Wi-Fi (IEEE 802.11 standards) or Powerline (IEEE 1901 standards) -- noting that MoCA isn't a formal IEEE specification.
    • Ethernet: networking via twisted pair (typical use)
    • Wi-Fi: networking sans physical media (over the air)
    • Powerline: networking via a home's power lines
    • MoCA: networking via coax (with flavors targeted for compatibility with satellite, cable or OTA)
    Products are available for bridging between two or more of these networking protocols to enable formation of a transparent single home network LAN (local area network).

    So MoCA is just a convenient, alternate means to network your TiVo boxes where coax connections are more probably available than Ethernet connections -- with a TiVo whole home setup officially supporting networking TiVo boxes via Ethernet, MoCA or a mix of both, as required/convenient/preferred.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  9. dfreybur

    dfreybur Active Member

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    We used wireless ethernet for streaming shows specifically because our formerly cable now broadband was installed inside our house with what seems like a MoCA system. It blocks some band and puts "ethernet" there. I fiddled around a bit and eventually ran my cable to any place with a TV plugging in the Tivos unit in those rooms. Now our OTAs get broadcast from the antenna with some band used by the AT&T equipment and they stream over wireless.

    We also have a Roku that streams over wireless and the smart UHD TVs are also able to stream over wireless using embedded systems that act line Roku. I think one brand is an embedded Roku.
     
  10. Richard Paracka

    Richard Paracka New Member

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    Feb 1, 2019
    My router/modem is manufactured by ActionTec as is my MoCA adapter for my TiVo Roamio. I sent an email to Actiontec about my issues and they informed me I'd need to run my TV antenna lead through a MoCA adapter before I integrate it into my MoCA network via a splitter.

    Bear in mind I have FIOS, which I'm told handles TV signals differently than many cable systems. Is every city different? According to what I'm reading they are. Its a wonder of modern technology that anything gets through.

    I'll post later when my conversion from Frontier Communications TV services is terminated and my TV antenna is integrated.
     
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Since you’ll be connecting the antenna directly to the Roamio DVR’s coax port, you can make the change whenever you want — without any effect on your FiOS TV service (if you have other set-tops) and vice versa. In fact, it would be a good idea to switch over to an antenna feed for the Roamio ASAP, to make sure it fits your needs.

    But since you’ll be connecting the antenna directly to the Roamio DVR, Actiontec’s advice is irrelevant, right? (Actiontec was likely operating under the assumption that the raw antenna signal needed to flow over all the coax plant to each wall outlet, and without the knowledge that the antenna signal could be routed via a dedicated coax to its lone destination entirely separate from the shared coax plant.)
     
  12. rjp34652

    rjp34652 New Member

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    Jan 17, 2013
    I believe I stated earlier that I will not be doing business with Frontier Communications upon expiration of my current contract. Last year I negotiated a one year contract for FIOS internet & basic cable TV service for $85/month. That was a pretty good deal, but one they didn't keep on their end. For the next six months I had to constantly argue with them to refrain from raising my fee each month. Today it stands at $125 - a long way from our negotiated deal.

    I've recently been informed my bill will rise to almost $190/month at the end of this contract. That's not including taxes, by the way, which are enough to bump the monthly bill across the two hundred dollar mark I'm sure. It makes no difference to me if the antenna feed works or not on the TiVo. I'd rather it did, but if it doesn't I'll just go with an internet service that will provide the viewing I want.

    What kind of company can one have commerce with that doesn't hold up its end of an agreement? I am totally at the mercy of these shysters and I'm done with it. I will continue to work with the antenna leads and hope that I can make MoCA work with my TiVo to provide DVR service of TV antenna signals throughout my home network. I'm hoping I can get it to work one way or the other. If it doesn't - I have a fall back position.

    Meanwhile I will rely upon ActionTec, the manufacturer of my router and MoCA adapter for advice. I appreciate the time and effort everyone has made to help with my escape from cable hell.
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    1) I’m assuming this is @Richard Paracka, but via recovered access to an earlier TCF account.
    2) I missed where FiOS was being entirely killed. The whole thread seemed to be operating under the assumption that FiOS Internet service was being retained.

    If the comment was triggered by my “without any effect on your FiOS TV service and vice versa” statement, my meaning was that you could make the antenna connection to the DVR immediately, either as a test or permanently, without concern for the FiOS TV signal.

    Then what was the point of the thread?
     
  14. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Your very first post:
    Your last post:
    So which is it, keeping Frontier internet or not? If Frontier is your current internet provider, and you're only dropping cable TV service, then you'll still be doing business with them. If not Frontier, who will be your new internet provider. This makes a huge difference in your Moca architecture.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019

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