Survivor: Winners at War - s40 e12 OAD 4-29-20

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by gweempose, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. gweempose

    gweempose Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Another crazy episode! Tony is on quite a run!

    I can't believe Kim of all people dropped out of the challenge for food. She is going to regret that for the rest of her life.

    Tribal was insane, but it's starting to become a bit ridiculous. I hope they institute some new rules after this season to mitigate this sort of last minute scrambling. It was fun for a while, but I'm over it.
     
  2. DancnDude

    DancnDude Thrice as nice TCF Club

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    Yep, I hate the scrambling. It just isn't entertaining if you can't hear what's happening. I'd rather hear Jeff ask questions. But overall another good episode.
     
  3. zalusky

    zalusky Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    That’s all about editing and Jeff has decided he wants show that haggling for now. I remember reading they show only a tiny portion of tribal council and it can go for up to 90 minutes but is edited to 10 minutes.
     
  4. jr461

    jr461 Well-Known Member

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    I've read that, too. The scrambling was a novelty for a while and fun for a time but now, I agree, it's just annoying. I don't understand how he can think a prolonged period of it on TV is in any way entertaining anymore (except for those few seconds when he did some play-by-play).
     
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  5. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    This happens now all the time because the idea of an alliance has gone out the window. That's why the old school players had such a hard time. They formed into traditional alliances and they were quickly scuttled when the newer players just moved on from alliance to alliance based on what was happening at the moment. And the moment even goes all the way to tribal council. Nobody plays this new game better than Tony. But I think the nature of the game has changed so much that this is the natural progression. There's so many idols and other "advantages" in play that the idea of an alliance is hard to maintain as new information about these advantages are obtained. I really don't know how Jeff could ever stop these conversations from happening considering the amount of new information found out at the TC.

    I still think someone on EoE is going to have at least a 50/50 shot at winning. These fire tokens are going to wind up being a huge game changer at the end. It's going to wind up buying one of the EoE players a huge advantage that will be hard for the regular players to overcome. Just my feeling. And I still think Jeff loves the idea of someone from EoE winning the game.
     
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  6. Family

    Family Well-Known Member

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    Some things just aren't making sense to me even in the Survivor world.

    1) Michelle voted for Jeremy as part of a minority group, but gave him a potential idol?
    2) In a season with the best players ever Tony is allowed to control the entire game.
    3) Sarah still with Tony?

    Hey Steveknj - still think Tony's social game isn't excellent? There hasn't been one that I can remember like this since Boston Rob dominated his alliance over an entire season (even that wasn't the same because it was against weaker hand picked players).
     
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  7. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    Yep, I still think his social game is not excellent. Again, you saw a lot of sniping about him, and he was clearly the target if he hadn't won immunity. Why? Because he was a threat and people don't like being dominated like that. The two other aspects of the game are perfect though. He's certainly outwitted and outplayed everyone. But his social game, if he doesn't get immunity could put him in danger of going home. Right now, that's his Achilles heal. Not saying he hasn't done enough to win, and the hope is that the jury will see that and vote for him. But again, the jury is a lot of EoE players and they have formed a bond and you have Rob there, who's manipulative as well, who could work the jury to his advantage if he gets back in the game, or influence the jury to vote his way.
     
  8. Family

    Family Well-Known Member

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    While I agree the immunity has helped, Tony got Ben to vote against Jeremy instead of Kim, who, at least as far as they showed, Ben had no relationship with and sees as a huge threat, while Kim has played a weak game. This after Tony back stabbed Ben at tribal. And he flipped Sarah AGAIN. Again it's not a Sandra type social game, but quite impressive. Tony's Achilles heal isn't the social game. It's that his overall game play is being too aggressive, which perhaps you see as social, but that what gets him idols and positioning so I don't know how you can discount that as being social play, but praise his other aspects.

    The jury is expert and Survivor lovers , so it's unlikely they will vote for bonds and friendships over actual play. If Tony makes finals he will win. They showed muttering among the jury members concerning how impressed they are how Tony is dominating.
     
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  9. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    I see social game differently than you do. I think the social game is not about getting people to do things for you, but more around getting people to like you enough to not upset the other players. I think that part of the game is going to be troublesome for Tony.

    I disagree about the EoE people. I think being on that island together, especially for those who've been there awhile will definitely come into play for the following reasons:

    1) You form relationships with people that you like, and in some cases you know outside the game
    2) They realize how hard life is there.
    3) They might consider themselves still "playing the game". They compete, they win fire tokens. That's going to come into play here.
    4) They only know a small portion of what's going on in the main game, but they know everything that's going on where they are.

    People are humans, and are usually driven by relationships. We all hope they look at the main game and see things objectively, but when it comes to "one of your own", that can be considered above all.
     
  10. Family

    Family Well-Known Member

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    LOL. I disagree with pretty much everything you say other than life is hard on EoE. Tony went into the game with prejudices against him from his previous play, and a great social game flipped them that helped him survive up to a few weeks ago when he turned on the engine. Many times players said Tony was not what they expected.

    And these players above all know it's not a picnic on the other side.
     
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  11. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    And I say, if Tony didn't win the last 3 communities, he'd be competing with Rob and Ambuh and Tyson for fire tokens on EoE. Certainly the editing at least showed he was that target this past episode and probably the one before. I love Tony as a player and his game manipulations are among the best we've seen. But I'm still not convinced that when it comes down to the jury his social game will not at least hurt him a little. Now, that doesn't mean he won't win because the rest of the game is strong, but it won't be because he's buddy buddy with anyone but maybe Sarah.
     
  12. tivotvaddict

    tivotvaddict CreativelyChallenged

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    I don't mind a little of the tribal council conversations because it's reflecting the reality of the game. At least this week more of them were subtitled. I just don't know that anything changed at tribal council this episode.

    Gotta give it up for Sarah! Turning down an immunity idol offer after correctly reading the room. Wow. Sad, however, that I think it does mean she still sees she and Tony as a team, and he's going to get rid of her eventually.
     
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  13. Hcour

    Hcour Well-Known Member

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    So at tribal one player can ask another player how he voted before the votes are read to help him decide whether to play an idol or not? I didn't know that.

    I do not think the old-time players will cast a winners vote for someone who was on EoE out of friendship or anything like that. I think it will be based on gameplay.
     
  14. gweempose

    gweempose Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    If Tony makes it to the final tribal, I don't see any way he loses at this point. Which is precisely why I think he's going to be in big trouble as soon as he doesn't have immunity. Up to this point, players like Michelle, Ben and Nick have been happy to sit back and let Tony run the show. It has allowed them to fly under the radar and make it deep into the game without really doing much. But all these players are too good to let such a dominant and flashy player make it to the end. Now that we are in the home stretch, I predict that they will all join forces to take out Tony as soon as he's vulnerable.

    At this point, even if Tony doesn't win, I think he's solidified his spot as one of the best players to ever play the game. This season, combined with his first season, puts him right up there with the likes of Parvati, Boston Rob and Sandra. If he somehow manages to win, he jumps to the number one spot, and I don't think anyone else would even be a close second.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  15. Family

    Family Well-Known Member

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    Right. He played a background type social game early despite prejudices against him removing his toughest challenge competition, correctly decided the time to make his move, and changed up his social game to fit this more aggressive play. Two different styles of social play to remove whomever he has wanted throughout the season.

    Pretty brilliant social play.
     
  16. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    But his social game would mean nothing if he didn't win the physical challenges. In fact he social game would probably be part of why he would have gotten voted off. Because they feel they have been manipulated, and played. That's not social game, that's game play (outwit). He might win because people feel he played the best game, winning challenges and playing hard. Not because he's made great alliances and people "trust" him. It's the opposite.
     
  17. Family

    Family Well-Known Member

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    You're looking at it as though there is only one way to play a social game. When Tony was vulnerable early he played the low key, alliance, trust social game. Once he eliminated his main challenge competitors and had an idol he played in a more dominating manipulative social way. That's the type of versatility I can't remember anyone else having, except maybe Rob. Both ways has pretty much allowed Tony to remove whomever he wanted to when he wanted to.

    I've said all there is, so you can make your final point if you wish, and we can let others have the forum :) Being at home gives me too much time.
     
  18. bryhamm

    bryhamm randomize

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    1) Michelle didn't know she was in the minority group. She was left out of the switch to Kim.
     
  19. bryhamm

    bryhamm randomize

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    Social game is not really one of the 3 things though ... outwit, outplay, outlast. Not unless you consider it part of outplay, but you already said that he is perfect at that part.
     
  20. bryhamm

    bryhamm randomize

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