Suggestions Requested to Correct TiVo Network Issue

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by HDTivoUser, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. HDTivoUser

    HDTivoUser Early Adopter

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    Again, I recently installed my TiVo system (TiVo Bolt VOX 3TB & 4 TiVo Mini VOXs). I have Verizon FiOS, which means I have an existing MoCA network. At the suggestion of a user on another thread....I was sure to set up my TiVo Bolt as a client on that network. I also set up all of the Mini's as clients as well (of course). This set-up worked perfectly and all of the client's were able to connect to my host DVR and the DVR is connected to the internet.

    However, I do have a problem that stems from the fact that I neglected to leave out an important tidbit about my home network. What I left out was that my Verizon Quantum Gateway router is set-up as a bridge. My Wi-Fi/home network is Broadcast/originates from my Netgear R9000 Nighthawk X10 Router. As a result, it appears that my MoCA network is separate from my Wi-Fi/home network....which results in my TiVo app in losing some functionality.

    So now to correcting this so that they are on the same network. I believe I have two options....an easy one (if it works) and a more complicated one:

    Easy option (if it works?):

    I have an Ethernet jack available near my TiVo Bolt. I would imagine I could simply plug the Ethernet from my home network into the Bolt, then rerun guided set-up and set the Bolt up on the MoCA network as a Bridge. (Note: I actually understand the correct process is to set-it up via Ethernet first....then after set-up is completed, change the network setting to "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network"). After that...then go around as reconnect the Mini's to the new MoCA network.

    Would that work? If so....that seems like the easiest option. But I am concerned that there may be more than 1 MoCA network and that may be a problem.

    Second Option:

    This is probably better in the long run and something I'll end up doing eventually, even if the 1st option works. Basically....just get rid of the Verizon Quantum Gateway. Run the CAT5 directly from the ONT to my Netgear router (after calling Verizon to register the router for the network). Then proceed with setting up the MoCA network as described above.

    I guess my main question is.....Will the easy option work correctly?

    Any other options that I am neglecting to consider?

    Thanks!
     
  2. HDTivoUser

    HDTivoUser Early Adopter

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    I just thought of a third option that may work:

    What if I simply unplug the coax from my Verizon Quantum Gateway, then set-up the Bolt to create the MoCA network? That way, there would be no chance of multiple MoCA networks.

    That may work too.
     
  3. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    Nor sure of the third option, but yes, I am pretty sure you need to disable Moca on the Verizon by some method.
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Option 1: Fine. But you'd want to disable the Quantum Gateway's MoCA LAN via the gateway's UI to avoid the BOLT and G1100 both bridging between coax and the Ethernet LAN.

    Option 2 & Option 3: I don't see how these are different. If you feel you could disconnect the coax from the Quantum Gateway (option 3) without consequences to your Internet connectivity, then it makes me think that the Quantum Gateway is currently connected to the ONT via Ethernet for its WAN connection -- which I believe is a requirement for FiOS Gigabit installs. I'm ignorant of FiOS but I don't see why the Ethernet connection from the ONT couldn't be direct to the WAN port of your Netgear router. And then, yeah, connect and configure the BOLT as your MoCA bridge, as you've described.

    Some older/previous FiOS gateways allowed for using the gateway for a MoCA LAN even when in bridge mode, but it required some surgery on the LAN segment associations via the UI; I'm not sure the G1100 has the ability, and there's really no need since your "BOLT as bridge" solution, with the G1100 removed from the setup, is much simpler.

    As for your previous preparatory thread...
    Though your FiOS setup doesn't require a "PoE" MoCA filter for security (the MoCA signals wouldn't get beyond the ONT), you would still benefit from a MoCA filter installed on the input of what you referred to as your "home run" splitter. (see this post for info on the performance benefits of the "PoE" MoCA filter)
     
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  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    There's an Option 4, as well, I think... an Ethernet WAN connection from the ONT to the Netgear's WAN port, then use a MoCA adapter (or a downconfigured G1100) at the Netgear location to bridge between the Netgear's Ethernet LAN and coax.

    DSLReports lists a number of possibilities.
     
  6. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    This will not work because then you will not have internet by removing the coax from the gateway. You can have gateway provide MoCa and still have ethernet on the Bolt (or just use MoCa, without ethernet)

    To use Bolt as MoCa host, you need to disable the MoCa feature in the Gateway's settings, not disconnect coax, but other devices that rely on the Gateway's MoCa may not work.
     
  7. HDTivoUser

    HDTivoUser Early Adopter

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    To clarify....my internet comes from the ONT via CAT5/ethernet. The coax was just installed for video/MoCA. Now that I have no FiOS set-top boxes, I see no need for the coax going into the Quantum Gateway if I can use my Bolt as a MoCA bridge.
     
  8. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    Is Bolt connected by ethernet and coax? Seems you still need the coax to the gateway, if the coax (Mini) is on the same line as the gateway.
     
  9. HDTivoUser

    HDTivoUser Early Adopter

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    Currently, no...only coax. (See original post). However, if I disconnected the coax to my gateway, I would then plug an Ethernet into my Bolt and change the setting so that the Bolt would create the MoCA network.
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Sounds correct, but my understanding is that you don't need the Quantum Gateway at all, at this point. Couldn't you just as easily connect the ONT via Ethernet to the Netgear router's WAN port ... and entirely remove the G1100 from your setup?

    Exceedingly short term, though... yes, simply disconnecting the coax from the Quantum Gateway would prevent the G1100's MoCA LAN from interfering with the BOLT's (planned) MoCA bridging.
     
  11. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    Well, let's back up to the apparent root of your issue - the fact that you think you have two networks. If that is true, you simply need to fix that instead of trying to find some work-around.

    Since you did not provide any additional information about why you think you have a "separate" network from your home network, or even what problems you are having, I can only guess at what to suggest. MoCA itself does not make a "separate" network, it just provides the hardware to bridge an existing Ethernet signal from cat6 wires over to coax wires.

    The most obvious possibility is that you simply have two different devices configured as DHCP servers. If that is the case, just disable DHCP in the the secondary device and all will be fine.

    The company that provides your Internet service will have set up a router as a DHCP server - I suggest that is always the preferred choice, so if you have added a second router on your network to provide additional services, such as WiFi or network storage, then just go into the configuration pages on that router and turn off DHCP. Everything else should continue to work just fine. For me, this makes a very clear demarcation between the Internet access for which THEY are responsible, and the rest of my LAN that I prefer to manage myself.

    For example, when I moved to this house, my only choice for Internet was DSL, but I already had a high-end Netgear router with which I was very familiar and preferred to keep using for my main network configuration (ancient model now, but still gives me what I want). My solution was simple - I just left DHCP on in the DSL router (but disabled wireless and other services) and then connected my Netgear router to one port with the Netgear DHCP turned off.

    Oh, by the way, if you insist on playing around with different network settings in your Bolt, you do NOT need to re-run Guided Setep at all. In fact, if you simply connect an Ethernet cable to the Bolt, it will instantly switch to using Ethernet AND create a MoCA network too [MoCA + Ethernet] without you doing anything at all (Ethernet is prioritized in the Bolt). I would not want two active MoCA bridges on the same LAN, so then you will need to go into Network Settings and disable MoCA on the Bolt. You might even find that alone solves whatever problem you are having, as the existing MoCA bridge will continue serving your Minis. But you still want to make sure you only have one DHCP server active on your LAN unless you have very specific reasons why you want to isolate some devices (like the computer used by an evil teenager!).
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  12. sangs

    sangs Active Member

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    You're leaving out another option - putting the Nighthawk in Bridge Mode and making the Quantum router the "primary." That's what I do, and TiVo (two Bolts, two Minis) works flawlessly using MoCa. I don't use anything on the Quantum router but the ethernet ports - I have the wireless turned off and only use the Nighthawk's wireless networks. Now, you might have a reason for not wanting it like that, but just wanted to throw that option out there.
     
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  13. HDTivoUser

    HDTivoUser Early Adopter

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    Yes....that is exactly what I proposed as my second option. It does require a call to Verizon.


    So about two weeks ago, I upgraded from FiOS 100/100 to FiOS Gigabit. When I was on 100/100, the data went from the ONT to my Quantum Gateway via coax run. I had issues with the Quantum Gateway (crappy Wi-Fi coverage and speeds for number of devices on my network), so I purchased a much nicer Wi-Fi router which fixed all of my problems. I had the FiOS coax line going to my Quantum Gateway and set-up the Gateway as a bridge with ethernet out to my NewGear router. The Netgear router manages my home network (wired and wireless).

    Prior to my Gigabit upgrade, my ONT was an older one and did not have an Ethernet out option (or if it did....I didn't want to run the cable). Additionally, at the time I had DirecTV service. My DirecTV server (HS17) set-up the MoCA network and was fed Ethernet from my Netgear Router.....so all was good (MoCA network and wifi network could see each other).

    When FiOS upgraded my to Gigabit, they converted a CAT5 phone line into an Ethernet cable and installed a new ONT. Now, my data was fed to my Quantum Gateway from the ONT via Ethernet. The coax was left in the Gateway in anticipation of my upcoming FiOS TV installation. This last weekend, FiOS installed 5 set-top boxes with a MoCA network established by the Quantum Gateway. I simply exchanged out the 5 FiOS boxes for the TiVo boxes and set them up on that same MoCA network.

    I believe I have 2 networks because at this moment....I have no connection from my Netgear router to any coax line.

    The problems I am having as a result (as stated in original post) is that my wi-fi network cannot see my TiVo network....therefor, my TiVo app loses some functionality.

    Side Note - I just looked at my connected devices, and my Netgear Router is listed as connected to my Quantum Gateway with an IP address of 192.168.1.184 (which leads me to believe that the Gateway is still assigning IP addresses). Hmmmm....
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  14. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    I know on the Comcast Arris Router/Gateways used here in Houston, when they are put in Bridge Mode, the MoCA is disabled. The checkbox is unchecked and 'greyed out'.

    Maybe your gateway, too?

    -KP
     
  15. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    If you have an Ethernet cable running from your ONT to the Gateway, then your ONT probably has a DHCP server which is generating the LAN. I don't know anything about that Gateway box, so it could still be the DHCP server instead of the ONT; it depends on which port in the Gateway that cable connects to. But it does not really matter.

    The problem you describe is simply that your Netgear router is configured to create a new subnet instead of using the existing LAN (and it probably also has a firewall to protect its own LAN from that evil network it thinks is outside of it).

    As I said in my last post, you just need to disable the DHCP server in that Netgear router. You might need to change the firewall settings too, but I doubt that.

    Just for comparison, my Netgear router does not currently have any Ethernet cable at all connected to the yellow WAN port (that used to go to the cable modem long ago). The only connection between the Netgear router and my DSL modem/router is just a normal Ethernet connection to one of the normal LAN ports on each device. Everything else in my house is connected to one of the other LAN ports on the Netgear router or the Netgear wireless. In the Netgear LAN Setup screen, I have UN-checked the option to use the Netgear router as a DHCP server.

    The default LAN IP address in my DSL modem/router is x.x.254.254. Just to make management of my LAN easier, I have configured the DSL router to assign fixed address x.x.254.253 to my Netgear router. I also configure separate DHCP address pools in the DSL router for different types of devices, but that is in no way actually necessary for the LAN to function.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    “Instead” is the case for Wi-Fi and Ethernet, but enabling/connecting Ethernet doesn’t disable the MoCA hardware.
     
  17. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    If you have a Bolt configured as a MoCA client, and then connect an Ethernet cable to it at any later time, it will immediately switch the network settings to [Ethernet + MoCA], which uses Ethernet for communication while also creating a MoCA bridge. There is no way to disable Ethernet without removing the cable. I never said it disabled any hardware of any type, it just stops using MoCA for network communication, and you do not have to make any changes at all in the Network Settings screen for this to happen.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  18. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    +1 for what sangs posted
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Make the call... BOOM. Done.

    (Though, again, Option 3 ... disconnecting the coax from the G1100 ... would allow immediate setup of the BOLT as your MoCA bridge, after which you could make the call to Verizon to activate the Netgear as your router.)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    My experience, and that of many others who’ve posted here, differs from your description.
     

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