Success Upgrading Bolt(+) with 4TB, 5TB + 2.5" Internal Drives?

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by zombiephysicist, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. zombiephysicist

    zombiephysicist Member

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    Sep 22, 2017

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    I'm at around 18 months. 100% capacity now. Knock wood, no issues.
     
  2. multiple

    multiple Member

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    Aug 26, 2007
    I've been using the 5TB on 3 Bolts now for about 2 months without any issues on TE4.
     
    sohkis and zombiephysicist like this.
  3. zombiephysicist

    zombiephysicist Member

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    Sep 22, 2017
    So an update. My 5TB drive is still working after 18 months. However, I upgraded a friend's 5TB at the same time and his just died.

    I also think I found out why some people's drives die fast and some last longer. Stand by mode.

    So if your TiVo is always on and never goes into standby mode, TiVO live is always recording 6 tuners 24/7 into a 30minute cache. That obviously pulverizes the drive.

    My TiVo always goes into standby mode when I turn the TV off (the harmony remote does this automatically).

    Things still record in standby mode, it just doesnt do the live tv 24/7 recording thing and also doesnt record suggestions. See here: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Power-Saving-and-Standby-Modes

    I am upgrading my TiVo to an SSD, see this thread if interested: 5TB Bolt Drive to 7.68TB SSD Upgrade, Best Approach?

    This article on SSDs got me thinking about standby mode being the answer to why some of the 4/5TB 2.5" drives die and some dont, as you can see, it is a significant factor in lowering life expectancy of an SSD drive:

    Using SSDs in DVRs - in Koherence
    Vs "always recording"
    So I think this "always recording" penalty also applies to spinning hard drives. In particular, 2.5" drives are not as robust as 3.5" enterprise level drives for such "always on" abuse.
     
    Bill M likes this.
  4. global_dev

    global_dev Member

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    Mar 15, 2010
    Northern VA
    is buffer usage worse than spinup/down on a non-ssd?
     
  5. zombiephysicist

    zombiephysicist Member

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    Not sure, but I suspect there will be low latency on an SSD. I think folks are right, that without TRIM you should expect 1/3 speed writes over time, but that is still faster than the 2.5" spinner, so it should be fine. Well at least in theory. Time will tell. Doing upgrade today! Fingers crossed!
     
  6. zombiephysicist

    zombiephysicist Member

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    Sep 22, 2017
    Thanks guys. I tried the MFSTools 3.3. Made a USB thupmbstick, but my surfacebook wouldnt boot it, so I just gave up. I did install the SSD. MFS Formatter did it's job and it formatted the 7.68TB SSD out to over 7100MBs and resulted in well ever 1200 HD recording hours.

    So now we'll see how long it lasts.

    Initial notes. The boot time etc isn't any faster. Which makes sense as I have come to realize, the Bolt has some kind of mini SD card boot device somewhere on it. The OS boots from that. So the only "speed up" the Bolt will gain might be when it's trying to get a listing of shows while it's heavily being written to. So I suspect in general, it should seem like the same speed.

    The one benefit I did instantly feel was the lack of anxiety of moving the bolt around while it's working. Without a real spinning drive moving the bolt around is now anxiety free, no fear of a drive crash.

    Anyway, let's see how long this puppy lasts.
     
  7. RyanL

    RyanL New Member

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    Apr 28, 2019
    Any issues yet? I've been running my 5TB Seagate SMR drive for 5 months but woke up to 4 flashing lights this Monday. Unplugged it and plugged it back in and it seemed to boot properly, but I'm not sure if the drive is on it's way out or not.
     
  8. RyanL

    RyanL New Member

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    Apr 28, 2019
    Don't newer SSDs have hardware TRIM built in though? Previously I believe it was up to the OS to handle it. To what you were saying above about power saving options (wasn't going to quote that whole message) is that I believe there is a few different levels of power saving options and I had to set mine to low otherwise it would miss some recordings. Don't know how much this option really saves the drive from spinning though. Contemplated grabbing a 4TB Micron earlier in the summer for $300 (they were on sale for about $350 and eventually dropped to about $300 - thread was here). Grabbed myself 2 x 1TB Micron drives for a couple of PCs from that deal and have been happy with them. Anyway if you look at the post above I had 4 flashing lights on my Bolt (5tb Seagate SMR drive) the other day. Rebooted it and it seems fine, but now I'm a little worried. Not seeing any deals right now on any larger SSDs and not looking to spend a ton on it either so may be thinking about just grabbing the next deal I see on a 2tb one and getting one with a decent warranty such as 5 years (if your projected #s are correct above, I'll probably use it). I like having the extended size (hell I'm at 80% with the 5tb, but I'm sure a lot of it can be cleaned up). Maybe I'll consider a larger 3.5" drive but not really keen on the idea of an external enclosure. Maybe I'll figure out a way to mount it internally (move some things around like the fan) but then I would still need to find 12 volts for it. I may even think about throwing the guts from the Bolt into a little itx case or something. Who knows. Just ranting or whatever. Let me know how that SSD is doing though.
     
  9. zombiephysicist

    zombiephysicist Member

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    Sep 22, 2017
    So I'm no longer using the 5TB Seagate spinner. I was not experiencing problems but my friend was after about a year. The difference was he did not put his TiVo in any power saver mode. I regularly put my TiVo to sleep because that's what the harmony remote does. That said, I think if you just turn on even the lowest level of power saving (so it still records all your shows and records recommendations, but does NOT record all 6 tunes 24/7 in live cache) it will last for at least 2 or 3 years.

    I'm currently doing this with an SSD and Im at around 6 months of use, so we'll see if my theory holds.
     
  10. ckennylin

    ckennylin New Member

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    4 lights on one of 2 5TB-upgraded units this past Saturday night, all good after reboot. Between the two units, maybe 5-6 instances between the two since late summer 2018. I'll have to be more diligent in keeping records, but incidents are rare and minor. I do not power-save, do not record suggestions, and both are on TE3.

    I purchased 3x 5TB drives from Costco as regular USB drives in December 2018 and one was DOA, so definitely test thoroughly before using.

    Incidentally, the shucked drives are on the certified list for the Synology ds620 slim NAS as they are the only 5TB 2.5" drives in the market. Unfortunately, used units are not available and Synology NASs are rarely discounted.
     
  11. marcao

    marcao New Member

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    Jan 17, 2011
    I have just bought a 5TB 2.5" Seagate Backup Plus from Costco, removed the drive from the external enclosure and added into a 4-tuner Bolt Vox. Went through the guided setup process and the drive seem to have been formatted fine. System information shows 800 HD hours. Software version is 21.9.7.v10-USC-11-849. Is this expected now? No need to format the drive using MFS Reformatter? Thanks!
     
  12. 3 Cushion John

    3 Cushion John Member

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    Oct 15, 2019
    It looks like you're good to go....
     
  13. 3 Cushion John

    3 Cushion John Member

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    Oct 15, 2019
    I don't think it's the drive. I had 4 lights flashing come and go over a 5 month period on a bolt 6-tuner. Changed 5T hard drives 3-4 times. Changed the the sata cable. Changed the main pwr cable. Even sprayed all electrical contacts with elect cleaner. Still the flashing lights came back. Nothing else to change. Result... Tivo motherboard.
     
  14. marcao

    marcao New Member

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    Jan 17, 2011
    I'm wondering if I shouldn't run MFS Reformatter anyway just to make sure that all partitions are properly aligned. I have no programs recorded so should be a simple exercise. Or will this just be a waste of time?
     
  15. RyanL

    RyanL New Member

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    Apr 28, 2019
    Saw the flashing light ordeal again on mine a couple of mornings ago. So far it's happened late at night or early morning from what I can tell. Maybe it tries to go to sleep and something goes wrong, who knows. Whatever happens is clearly not the same as a crash; I've been using the bolt before and it will crash all of a sudden but then reboots on it's own. This wont reset itself without removing power.

    Edit: Still never looked into placing all the guts for a bolt into a slightly larger case (think I mentioned a mini itx or something in my post above). But this is still on my mind. For one, I would like to be able to use a 3.5" drive (they've always seem much more reliable to me plus I could essentially go a bit bigger) and two, things get pretty damn warm in that little tivo case with that joke of a fan. Even one well placed 80mm low RPM fan would do so much of a better job of circulating air over the components.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020

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