Stuck on Powering Up, Drives or power supply?

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by tivoboy, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. Oct 4, 2011 #1 of 29
    tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    So, sorry for the post. I KNOW this information must be in here, but now after 30 minutes of searching and reading I can't really find a specific answer.

    H10-250: dual drive, relatively recent PS replacement, had the temperature issue.

    Came home, device showed Powering up. It appears it was stuck. So, tried rebooting, but nothing, powering up only. Shut it down, check connections, plug in, nothing.

    Is there a way to tell if this is the primary drive or the power supply? The drives SEEM to be spinning or at least getting power - last time when this failed and had the temperature issue, the drives were clearly not getting power.

    I found SOME information about testing the drives (I assume the primary drive needs testing?), with maxtor/seagate/WD software, but there isn't really any summary of HOW to test? Does it have to be windows XP still or DOS only? boot into a linux distro and connect the drive/s with a USB to IDE connector?

    What am I testing for, bad sectors? If there ARE bad sectors, do I let the drive manufacturer software repair (ex-out) the bad sectors or will the kill the special tivo/linux install?

    Any way to get kickstart to work from a boot up? or is that only if the device is operating but not functioning? And if KS is possible, what is the process for an HDTIVO?

    Thanks for any responses or direct links? Maybe my ability to build the best queries is lacking.

    :up:
     
  2. Oct 4, 2011 #2 of 29
    stevel

    stevel Dumb Blond TCF Club

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    Both drives need testing. The utilities you list can do a light test to make sure that the drive is readable - follow the instructions. Some people swear by SpinRite but it is pricey.
     
  3. Oct 6, 2011 #3 of 29
    tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    Can anyone describe the way to test these drives? I can get the software from western digital, but wonder if it can be run in an enclosure, under vista/win7 or does it need to be a linux install to test without messing with the tivo software?
     
  4. Oct 6, 2011 #4 of 29
    bpratt

    bpratt New Member

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    You mentioned that you had recently replaced the power supply. Is it possible that one of the cables has come loose on one of your disk drives? The "Powering Up" message comes from the HR10-250 firmware and you will get that message even with the drive removed. The remaining messages are produced by booting the operating system from disk. If the disk can't be read, the system hangs with the "Powering Up" message.
     
  5. Oct 6, 2011 #5 of 29
    tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    Yes, I replaced the PS a few months ago, it was clearly dead and putting in the new one, everything worked fine. As noted above, I came back last weekend and it was powering up only, and continues to power up only. It never gets past it. I have pulled the drive (after first making sure things were seated and connected properly and trying to boot it, but no luck) and would like to test at least the primary drive, but am not sure what the process is of connecting it and booting into what OS to allow the manufacturer drive test software to run.

    It would seem, booting into vista or on a mac will NOT work. I can boot into a linux distro or win 7, but can only connect it with a USB enclosure or IDE to USB connector, don't really how a tower anymore to install it and test.

    But, what is the process for testing? Can I launch a dos shell, connect the drive via USB and run the test program from a DOS prompt, or can I use ubuntu or something to run the program from there?
     
  6. Oct 6, 2011 #6 of 29
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Make sure that the cable between the motherboard and the front panel is fully and properly seated at both ends.

    You should be able to download the manufacturer's diagnostic utilities as an iso of a bootable cd, so you can burn your own.

    After the drive(s) pass the manufacturer's diagnostics, assuming they do, we can try either kickstart procedures or using WinMFS to rewrite the bootpage to see if we can get it to boot from the alternate partition set.

    Freeze the drive(s), run the diagnostics, report the results.
     
  7. TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    If a DVR gets stuck on "powering up" the most likely problem is a corrupted OS partition. The HDD itself could be fine, and the PS could be fine. Or not. You could try reloading the OS.

    If, on the other hand, a DVR continually reboots, the most likely problem is either the HDD or the PS. Check for domed or bulging filter caps in the PS. If they look OK, replace the HDD. Problem still there? Replace or fix the PS.
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Another possibility I tripped over by accident the other day is a corrupted bootpage (don't know how it got that way), where the part that tells it to either go to partitions 3 and 4 , or to go to partitions 6 and 7, was telling it something like 1 and 4, or 1 and 3, or 2 and 4.

    WinMFS pulled my chestnuts out of the fire on that one.
     
  9. Brandon C

    Brandon C TiVo Oldie

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    I just had a similar issue and replaced the capacitors in my S3 power supply. It didn't cost me anything since I used some capacitors from an older TiVo. Just unsoldered them and installed them on my S3.

    Piece of cake if you know what you are doing.
     
  10. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Did that solve the problems, and did you use capacitors of the same uFarad and Working Voltage ratings?
     
  11. TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    Honestly, if the caps are simply have decreased significantly in value and are not shorted, you can take a couple of caps of a similar size (it really does not matter) and wire them each in parallel to the existing caps, which will pool the values together. As long as the total value is the same or higher than the marked value on the originals, that should work to babysit an aging PS for a couple more years.

    If that does not work, just yank them out and replace them, preferably with something of similar or higher value (does not have to be exact).
     
  12. tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    what is the process on this?
     
  13. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Are you already familiar with WinMFS?

    Have you actually used it before?
     
  14. tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    well, I think the last things I used were the mfstools products, and some of the hinsdale products. Haven't had to do an upgrade in a few years, but had to do an instantcake setup on this H10-250 about 1.5 years ago.

    What I am really looking to do is test the drive in some way with a windows vista laptop, or mac or linux distro, and ultimately fix possibly the tivo file system, header, whatnot on this drive. It just won't boot past powering up.
     
  15. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Well, you go to mfslive.org and you download the iso for the MFS Live cd and burn yourself a copy.

    This has nothing to do with WinMFS, but that cd is handy to have around.

    While you're at mfslive.org you also download WinMFS

    (while at that site you also read all of the documentation on how to use both the cd and WinMFS)

    You install WinMFS on a something running Windows (XP sp2, or later).

    You do not use any of the stuff built into Windows to look at the drive.

    You open up WinMFS, click on select drive, and select the TiVo drive.

    Then you click on mfsinfo

    It should show you the drives partition map and whether it's set to boot from 2, 3, and 4, or 5, 6, and 7.

    Although it just says either 3 and 4 or 6 and 7.

    If it says 6 and 7, Fix Bootpage option 1 will change it to 3 and 4

    If it says 3 and 4, option 2 will change it to 6 and 7

    If it says something like 1 and 4, or 2 and 4, or 1 and 3, or any numbers that aren't 3 and 4, or 6 and 7, (which is what happened to me), then something's screwed up and you can use Fix Bootpage to re-write the bootpage and possibly get things working again, like I did.

    You can also use Fix Bootpage to change from whatever your drive is set on to the other option, and maybe that will work.
     
  16. tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    Sounds good, thanks for taking the time to put that together. Should be a sticky. My real concern was connecting the drives to a win computer (historically, that was a kill the tivo FS sort of thing) but it would appear things are better now with most likely a bootable CD?
     
  17. tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    Quick Question. If one has a two drive system and is looking at the master drive only, are the partition maps similar to your description?
     
  18. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, the problem was the first version of XP and one of its predecessors (ME?, 2K?) would automatically notice that you'd connected the TiVo drive since you last booted up Windows, but since the TiVo drive uses a variation of the Apple Partition Map, it looks like an unpartitioned, unformatted drive to Windows, so it doesn't know to not write to it, so it goes ahead and writes to it to assign some sort of volume label or something.

    I think that was fixed with XP Service Pack 2. Anyway, up to date installations of XP, and later versions like Vista and 7, apparently don't do that without being told to, so as long as you boot up Windows but don't open the disk utilities built into Windows, you're safe, although WinMFS has something that'll fix the damage done by the earlier versions of Windows if you know that it needs fixing.

    MFS Live is a bootable cd that installs a version of Linux in RAM, so it doesn't require that it already be on a hard drive.

    If you use it, and set your computer to boot from the cd/dvd drive before looking for a hard drive from which to boot, then it'll load instead of Windows.

    What it will give you is a Linux command line interface, which you should have already encountered in your previous use of MFS Tools and the Hinsdale stuff.

    MFS Live is basically a newer version of MFS Tools, developed from Tiger's code by Spike. Spike also wrote WinMFS, which is a whole separate endevour.

    The MFS Live cd has a lot of useful stuff on it, not all of which is limited to use on TiVo drives, and not all of which is replicated inside of WinMFS.

    If my little bootpage fix via WinMFS doesn't solve your problem, then you'll probably need to be someone who understands the stuff on the MFS Live cd better than do I in order to be able to fix your problem.

    What I've learned has been by either trial and error or reading and asking questions on this site and another which this site won't let me actually name here unless deal I database find a way dotcom to obfusticate it.

    You probably don't know enough yet to get a lot of mileage out of the other site, but you can go there and read and maybe learn something.
     
  19. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Apparently we are posting past each other.


    I'll be back later this afternoon or evening with more.
     
  20. tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    :up::up::up:
     

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