Star Trek:TNG "Q Who" (S2E16)

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by doom1701, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. DougF

    DougF Well-Known Member

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    You can blame that on the station you were watching it on. DS9 (like TNG) was a syndicated show, so the stations that bought it all aired it when they wanted. Our local NBC affiliate showed it after SNL on Saturday nights.
     
  2. kaszeta

    kaszeta $nullstring TCF Club

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    Another voice here. DS9 had a rocky start, and some unevenness, but it also had some really good work. One of my favorite episodes of any Trek show is DS9's "In the Pale Moonlight". For that matter, Garek is one of my favorite Trek characters, another example of one intended mostly as throwaway character where the invented some real depth.

    "Duet", "Treachery, Faith and the Great River", and "The Wire" were all good, too.
     
  3. allan

    allan Just someone TCF Club

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    Is "In the Pale Moonlight" the one where Sisko got the Romulans to fight the Dominion? That was a fantastic episode!
     
  4. kaszeta

    kaszeta $nullstring TCF Club

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    Yes, that's the one.

    It also has one of my favorite dialogs (between Sisko and Garak):

     
  5. Bryanmc

    Bryanmc I'm normal.

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    Yes, I can't wait to get through TNG (on season 5 now) and get rolling with DS9. Unlike TNG I know there are a handful of DS9 episodes that I've missed. Can't wait to find them.
     
  6. DougF

    DougF Well-Known Member

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    Same here.
     
  7. gchance

    gchance 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    That's just the nature of syndication. Our local station used to pre-empt shows for basketball games and replay them at 3am. Sometimes they'd give a warning scroll a week in advance, but many times they did not.

    When Babylon 5 was at the climax of the series, the last 4 episodes of Season 4, they moved it to 3am and put Xena in its place. I called the station, and their reason was, "It's being cancelled at the end of the season, so we need to think about the future." I swear, a friend of mine didn't see a couple of those episodes until it was finally released on DVD.

    It's all about the money.

    Greg
     
  8. DougF

    DougF Well-Known Member

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    I'm about 10 minutes in and cannot believe how much screen time Sonya Gomez has had already. She got quite the intro for someone who was dumped shortly thereafter.
     
  9. DougF

    DougF Well-Known Member

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    Data just said "It is identical to what happened to those outposts along the Neutral Zone". I guess that answers my question from that episode:

     
  10. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    The other interesting thing that I learned about this episode: apparently the original intent was to make the Borg more of an insectoid race, and have them be the "mother race" of the parasites from "Conspiracy." This episode would have then been the resolution to the ending of that episode, answering whom the homing beacon signal was intended for. When the design for the race evolved to be cybernetic rather than insectoid, that idea was scrapped.

    If they would have gone with their original intent, that would have meant that the story would have originated in "Coming of Age," continuing through "Conspiracy" and "The Neutral Zone," and resolving with this episode, "Q Who."
     
  11. DougF

    DougF Well-Known Member

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    That was good. Haven't seen that in several years and I very much enjoyed it, aside from the Sonya Gomez stuff. It's certainly a very important episode in the history of Star Trek.
     
  12. DougF

    DougF Well-Known Member

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    Why was that atrocious? I remember some people at TrekWeb being absolutely furious about it when it first aired. I didn't understand the anger then and still don't.
     
  13. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    Mostly because it continued the trend of later Star Trek shows butchering what was seemingly established canon. It's obvious in this episode that the Federation had yet to learn about the Borg.... either that, or they are horrible at communicating really really important stuff to the ships in Starfleet. (I mean, the friggin' bartender had to clue in the captain of the flagship!)

    As I mentioned upthread, not only did Voyager rewrite that, establishing that apparently the Federation knew about the Borg, but even sent out the Raven as a scoutship to learn more about them. Then, Enterprise rewrote that further, apparently establishing that Earth knew about the Borg before the Federation even existed, yet apparently did little or nothing with that information for another few hundred years.

    It also was a huge letdown, because going into Enterprise, there was a bit of a relief among many fans that we finally would be going into a show where the overused alien species of the TNG era could be shelved for a while... particularly the Borg, which Voyager pretty much destroyed with how much they overused that species. However, it seemed to take no time at all before they gave in and went back to those old TNG species, even though they shouldn't even be around yet. It was incredibly lazy on the part of everyone involved in Enterprise.
     
  14. DougF

    DougF Well-Known Member

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    Right, but the events (First Contact) that resulted in the Borg showing up in "Regeneration" happened after the events of "Q, Who".
     
  15. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    Granted.

    First let me point out that I don't remember that episode of Enterprise. In fact, I may not have ever watched it in the first place. I sort of bailed on Enterprise pretty quickly because, frankly, it just wasn't a very good show.

    That said, from everything I remember from "Star Trek: First Contact," I don't remember them showing any indication that there would or could have been Borg that would have landed on Earth. The Borg Sphere was blown up pretty good by the Enterprise-E early on in the movie, and the chances of any fragment of it surviving re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere is nearly nil... and for Borg bodies to survive completely intact? Laughable. The only Borg that appeared to survive into the 21st Century were all aboard the Enterprise-E.

    Now, even if we go with the theory that somehow, under some laughably remote chances, a part of the Borg sphere survived with Borg bodies inside, and they manged to make it all the way to the surface for the events of "Regeneration" to occur... when the Enterprise E returned to it's own time in the 24th Century, they should have instantly noticed *major* changes in their universe resulting from the discovery of the Borg in the era of Enterprise. If there were no changes, that's even sadder yet - because that means they discovered 24th century Borg in the 22nd Century, with their associated technology... and did *nothing* with it at all.

    Frankly, the only reason that I can come up with for the Borg to be in the 22nd Century on Enterprise is as I mentioned - the people behind the show were lazy and just wanted it to happen, continuity be damned.
     
  16. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

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    Do you really want to get me started?
    :mad:

    The main problem is with the premise of that episode is that it assumes that Picard and company are total idiots.

    First, they're TOO STUPID to scan for or they're STUPID enought leave the Borg debris on Earth at First Contact (must not contaminate the time line) and then they're too stupid for not recognizing them at J25 after one of them beams into Engineering.

    The Enterprise-D is one of the premier Explorer vessels. You don't think that Starfleet might mention to be on the look out for cybernetic aliens from the Delta quadrant that might be invading about now?
    And not to mention that Starfleet got all sorts of records of the Borg .

    Also, The Borg were shown as being more resistant to the "more primitive" Phase Pistols than they were to 24th Century Phasers.
    And Reed increasing the power yield is enough the flummox the Borg?

    And yet Reed and Archer can still shoot the other Borg after they adapted?

    And Phlox was able to whip a cure for 24th Century Borg nanoprobes faster than Voyager's EMH?

    The show was flailing ratings wise so they decided to cash in on those "popular" Borg episodes with this ratings stunt.

    Too bad they had to abandon whatever semblance of story logic they had left.

    And yet I got a lot of flak on this very forum over these sentiments.
     
  17. doom1701

    doom1701 Time for a new Title TCF Club

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    JYoung, I have to wonder if we did an Enterprise re-watching (and people actually participated--I wouldn't) if most (if not all except Doug :)) viewers would fall on the "Enterprise Sucks" side of the fence now.
     
  18. Fish Man

    Fish Man Phish Food

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    Thanks for all the responses as to why it was atrocious that Archer knew about the Borg.

    The episode that this thread is about unambiguously establishes that this is the very first time Humans (or indeed, any Federation member) encountered any Borg face-to-face, or saw a Borg ship.

    The events in that Enterprise episode were approximately 200 years before this!

    It's irrelevant that the events of the movie "First Contact" were after this because that movie is unambiguous that the timeline was restored perfectly. The very first ever timeline "split" in Star Trek canon occurs in the 2009 movie "Star Trek".

    Now, from a practical point of view, it's quite understandable why they decided to have a timeline split in the 2009 movie: continuity was becoming too hard! So they "re-booted" the Star Trek "canon" so that they wouldn't have to worry about such things in the future.

    "Enterprise" finding the Borg is an egregious continuity error, period. Either that, or we're expected to believe that in the uber-digital age depicted in the Star Trek universe, historical record keeping utterly sucks. That's ludicrous, and totally unbelievable, in the context of the other depictions of the Star Trek universe.

    Archer encountering Frengi has an identical problem, in that the first time Enterprise D encountered them, Data states, "They have been little more than legend and rumor up until know", (rough "from memory" quote) and states unambiguously that Enterprise D was the first Federation crew to ever see one. Furthermore, dialog in that episode spells out that the Ferengi only recently "acquired" (literally, through purchasing it) faster-than-light travel, which means they wouldn't have had FTL when Archer encountered them. Another horrendous continuity error.

    Also, that Archer's Enterprise established visual contact with every species they encountered EXCEPT the Romulans, and that they had many, many, many, dealings with the Romulans is another credibility problem. Also, that T'Pol is depicted as being a virtual encyclopedia on Romulans, except for the one minor detail that they're friggin' renegade Vulcans, is not credible.

    However, "Enterprise's" depiction of early encounters with Andorians, Telerites, and a few other species mentioned in the other series, and the evolution of Vulcan philosophy indicates that the series was supposed to be in the same timeline as TNG, DS9, and TOS. So, their occasional use of alien species that Star Trek canon clearly established had not been encountered until much later can only be attributed to very lazy writing. Inexcusably lazy, IMHO.
     
  19. busyba

    busyba The Funcooker

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    I bailed on Enterprise very early on, so could you explain what they ended up using for an explanation for the Klingon head ridges?
     
  20. kaszeta

    kaszeta $nullstring TCF Club

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    A virus that caused Klingons to look more human.

    Myself, I even wish they hadn't done Worf's throwaway line. I'm much happer with their treatment of Romulans, where they just kinda ignore the fact that TOS Romulans don't look like TNG and later ones.
     

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