Star Trek: Discovery - S2 E14 (season finale) "Such Sweet Sorrow", part 2

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by cwerdna, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. vertigo235

    vertigo235 Well-Known Member TCF Club

    17,904
    692
    Oct 27, 2000
    Charlotte
    Oh man a Pike series would be great. Pike and The Enterprise were my favorite parts of this season for sure.

    Also so there is this Section 31 spin off, with Michelle Yeoh, but she's 945 years in the future now, how's that going to work out?
     
    LlamaLarry likes this.
  2. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

    8,438
    128
    Nov 11, 2002

    According to the script writers not only did it had to be manned it had to be manned specifically by Michael or her mother.

    From the previous episode:
    ###
    Burnham's suit was destroyed on Essof IV. That was the only method of time travel we know of.

    We have the technical designs from Section 31. We can attempt to rebuild it.

    Do it. To my physical specifications, please.

    That's not possible, sir. The suit was tailored to Dr. Burnham's DNA.

    Which makes my MRNA the closest genetic match. I'll do it. My mother started this. I'm gonna finish it.

    Even if we could adapt the code to your biology, the exoskeleton is made from a composite alloy that we can't synthesize.

    Well, the alloy is tritanium-based. It might be possible to melt down part of a cargo bulkhead to cast a mold.

    Not to sweat the details, but do you even know how to fly the thing?

    I learned the basics from her logs. I'm sure there'll be some trial and error opening the wormhole.
    ###
     
  3. martinp13

    martinp13 Roller coaster addict :)

    11,801
    327
    Mar 19, 2001
    Fort Worth, TX
    I was completely creeped out by Yeoh's gleeful performance while Control was being exterminated in the Spore Cubicle. Yeesh!

    And how stupid can an AI be? Stupid enough to put all of itself into one carbon-based lifeform. It has plenty of itself to spread around, so put one controlled person on each ship. And a few controlled people in other places nowhere near the battle. Even if every Section 31 ship is destroyed, Control can live on.
     
  4. eddyj

    eddyj Señor Member TCF Club

    69,527
    9,022
    Jun 20, 2002
    South Florida
    Maybe it was afraid those other "pieces" would gain separate sentience and try to depose it.
     
  5. MikeBear

    MikeBear Letting my mind wander, luring it back with candy.

    479
    141
    May 21, 2015
    Mid-Michigan
    If you want TNG stories, then you should be watching The Orville instead. That's ST:TNG Redux.
     
    ej42137 likes this.
  6. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

    4,686
    126
    Feb 2, 2006
    Ellicott...
    I've thoroughly enjoyed this series despite its many flaws and holes in the plot. It is, after all, Science Fiction, with an emphasis on "Fiction." If you ever have any expectation of enjoying a show like this you have to check your brain at the door and just go with it.
     
    cwerdna and MScottC like this.
  7. ej42137

    ej42137 Well-Known Member

    3,619
    510
    Feb 15, 2014
    Los Angeles
    I can't agree with this. A plot hole is a plot hole, and I tend to hold SF to a higher standard with respect to being technically correct. It really takes me out of the story the same way it takes me out of the story when people rack their slides multiple times in an action movie.
     
    Rob Helmerichs likes this.
  8. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    50,422
    7,502
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis
    Totally this. If there's one thing worse than viewers who will let anything pass "because it's just sci-fi," it's writers who will let anything pass "because it's just sci-fi." ;)
     
    JYoung and LlamaLarry like this.
  9. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

    4,686
    126
    Feb 2, 2006
    Ellicott...
    I don't disagree with you in that a plot hole is something that should always be avoided, but if you honestly think that TV writers are that intelligent to get every detail right then you're just going to suffer through a lot of plot holes. The whole point of it is to make it entertaining, not factual. If you want facts then stick to documentaries. I like Discovery and take it for what it is, not what I think it should be. If you don't like the story then go to the studio and get yourself hired as a writer or technical consultant so they can get it right. Either that or just don't watch the show if it gets you so upset.

    I stopped watching hospital shows because I used to work in several different hospitals ages ago and the shows get so many things wrong that I found it irritating so I understand where you're coming from. My solution was simply to stop watching them.
     
  10. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

    8,438
    128
    Nov 11, 2002
    For my favourite shows my usual strong preference is to say that is not a plot hole, not a logic failure, and find a solution.

    But I think in recent Discovery episodes there has been a failure of directorial / show runner supervision. For example different CGI renditions of the size of the photon torpedo, different accounts of what damage it would do/did, did not tie up.
     
  11. doom1701

    doom1701 Time for a new Title TCF Club

    26,305
    361
    May 15, 2001
    Grand...
    Wow. After a somewhat strong start, and some pretty fun TOS tie-ins...this season ended with a giant thud. It felt like someone saw Star Trek Beyond and thought "Oh, that was really cool, let's take our Star Trek storyline that we've been trying to ground in the Prime universe and fill it with a crap space battle crammed with tiny fighters, while also pissing off fans with an incredibly weak time travel story with causality loop."

    There was a lot of potential this season--Pike, Spock and the Enterprise (which, while I think they did a decent job representing the Enterprise, I do feel the bridge was WAY too flashy...and why did they need to introduce the second turbolift?), Talos and the tie in to The Cage/Menagerie, some potential Klingon political drama...even Michael's Mom had potential (which they seemed to have completely wasted--what was her purpose this season other than a convenient way to get the time suit design to Michael?). And it all concluded with a giant, confusing space battle, a super AI that was entirely encompassed in nanobots in one person (leading to a horrible Keystone trope), and a bunch of handwaving about how no one will discuss how the Discovery or her crew ever existed, even though they all got medals and were acknowledged for winning the Klingon war.
     
    JYoung, cwerdna and lalouque like this.
  12. IndyJones1023

    IndyJones1023 Auteur

    54,011
    326
    Apr 1, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    I rewatched season 1 in prep for season 2. Rewatching season 1 and looking for all the clues they dropped along the way was great! It gets better upon a second viewing.

    And this season started off interestingly enough. I loved the nods and throwbacks. But then it started to get real mucked up. Nothing started to make sense. At all. Total crap writing. It must have been approved by people who couldn't understand a lick of sci-fi. It was stupid.

    Let's send the evil program into the future! Huh? That seems like a bad place for it - with access to superior future technologies.

    If the Disco was infected by Control when the evacuated, why didn't it fly off to Leland? Why would they go back to it? Where did hundreds of fighter ships come from? When Burnham and Spock flew off to open the worm hole - they landed on something?

    It was all so bizarrely bad. I know I'm forgetting some of the glaring issues. It was rather an astounding bad finish.

    I guess next season it'll be renamed The Adventures of Captain Pike and His Buddy Young Spock?
     
  13. IndyJones1023

    IndyJones1023 Auteur

    54,011
    326
    Apr 1, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Oh yeah, Leland/Control is having hundreds of drones shoot at the Disco - so he beams over to it! WTF?
     
    cwerdna likes this.
  14. IndyJones1023

    IndyJones1023 Auteur

    54,011
    326
    Apr 1, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Oh yeah, and Control dies before the Disco goes thru the wormhole - so it doesn't need to go thru the wormhole any more!
     
    LlamaLarry, JYoung and cwerdna like this.
  15. cwerdna

    cwerdna Proud Tivolutionary

    13,336
    493
    Feb 22, 2001
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Unfortunately, no. :(

    Report: Anson Mount Not Returning For ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 3
    Anson Mount and Rebecca Romijn won't return for Season 3 of Star Trek: Discovery

    Some folks have really wanted a Captain Pike spinoff series.
    Hmmm... yeah... but I guess it was a plot device.

    How the 'Star Trek: Discovery' Finale Pulled Off the Franchise's Boldest Leap Yet says how far into the future they're jumping. I guess it gives them a whole new playground w/o having to worry so much about canon.
     
  16. doom1701

    doom1701 Time for a new Title TCF Club

    26,305
    361
    May 15, 2001
    Grand...
    Discovery wasn't infected with Control, it had the alien data from early in the season that Control wanted so badly. It was that data (becoming sentient) that disabled the auto destruct.
     
  17. eddyj

    eddyj Señor Member TCF Club

    69,527
    9,022
    Jun 20, 2002
    South Florida
    They had to, if they wanted to do new and different stuff. Having to work in the past really handcuffed them, and the "forget this ever happened" finale was a weak attempt to retcon stuff. They are better off with the jump, even if we will miss our friends on the Enterprise.
     
  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Proud Tivolutionary

    13,336
    493
    Feb 22, 2001
    SF Bay Area, CA
    On the last part, that probably ties into the Short Trek Calypso.
     
    LlamaLarry likes this.
  19. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

    30,453
    789
    Jan 16, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Ok, I wasn't looking forward to this and it actually took me a week to be able to sit down and watch this.

    And then I stopped because the first few minutes were all "we have to finish the Iron Man armor Time Suit while in battle".
    I hate to have to harp on this again but...

    They have a goddamn spore drive that could have bought them a lot of time by simply jumping a few dozen light years away!

    The fact that they don't jump away to buy them time to work out things is just stupid beyond all reason.

    But I try again to watch a few days later and I try to placate my brain with "oooohh, pretty space battle".
    But nope, my rational side kicks in with "this battle is completely unnecessary not to mention stupid".
    Repeatedly.
    So due to that, there's no real investment for me in this battle.

    Which means people like Admiral Cornwell have to die because no one is smart enough to say, "Hey, let's jump away 50 light years to buy some time".

    Then ControLeland is destroyed and apparently no one says, "Hey, we don't have to make the time jump now".
    Or even "Let's think this through now that we have time".
    (Head ------> Wall)

    Even the little things annoyed me.
    Like Number One asking Detmer to "dumb things down".
    Number One is the Enterprise helmsman and a very intelligent woman as well and you're telling me that she doesn't know what arc-seconds are?
    Come on!

    (And does it even make sense that Burnham can't set future coordinates until she travels into the past?)

    As for the "everything must be kept secret" bit, well ok for time travel, the sphere data, and Control, but I see no reason why the Spore Drive would have to to be kept secret.
    Especially since it was a big part of winning the Klingon War.
    I'm going to guess that this was another thing that the writers didn't think through.

    This season actually started off well (I liked Pike and Number One quite a bit) but eventually morphed into a flaming dung heap with a poorly defined villain.
    Thanks, Alex Kurtzman.
    (And this is exactly why I wasn't happy that he became show runner.)

    However, there is one good thing that has come from this season.
    Since we know that Burham and her mother have been mucking around with timeline quite a bit (going back to Mama saving Burnham as a child), I now can write off Discovery as an alternate timeline divorced from the Prime Universe.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
    LlamaLarry likes this.
  20. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

    30,453
    789
    Jan 16, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Uhm, what?
    They said that Section 31 (under "Tyler", because a brainwashed Klingon is the perfect choice to lead it) needed more transparency.
    So the solution is to make Section 31 more underground and covert???????

    This is why I said it was a mistake to introduce Section 31 in the first place.
     

Share This Page