Spectrum tuning adapter

Discussion in 'TiVo Edge' started by jerry rininger, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. jerry rininger

    jerry rininger New Member

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    Aug 25, 2020

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    Hi all. Need advise from y’all. I just upgraded to an Edge because the used bolt I purchased was having major issues tuning SDV channels and I wanted to rule out the device. So not 24 hours after getting the cable card paired I have some SDV channels that do not come in. So this isn’t TiVo hardware related.

    When I tune a channel that doesn’t come in the diagnostics in the TiVo show - for frequency, no signal strength, etc. Channels that I currently do get to come in, which may be gone tomorrow, show signal strength off 100% and SNR of 40-43%. I just ordered some attenuators to try to bring it down and have texted the spectrum supervisor and manager to tell them the issue persists.

    My question is could the high signal/SNR cause this issue or is it a hardware issue on their end?

    My area uses cisco Cc and TA.

    TIA.

    Jerry


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  2. quern

    quern New Member

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    Dec 28, 2008
    Quick Update - 2 days ago I had 4 people from Spectrum over. I had a Field Operations Manager, 2 Supervisors and a senior tech. They spent about 2 hours and i'm not sure if anything is resolved. Key takeaways:
    * The Field Ops Mgr brought a meter to check basic electrical data. When checking the power supply strip (new this year) it would make my TV picture go black. Stop testing picture came back on. Flagged this as a possible issue. Replaced it with a Monster Power Switch I've had for yrs and the test yielded a picture that never went black.
    * EMM's - The EMM's would not build on my Tivo. They were very low and they had to call to have "hits" sent to get the EMM's above 60. Restart Tivo and EMM's are 0. They were shocked they would not build on their own.
    * Checked all signals at pole and house to confirm everything was good.
    * Supervisor who is experienced with TIVO's insisted that they check a few levels to ensure product was talking properly... and that EMM's had to be above 60
    * Switched out my Cable Card and Tuning Adapter again to see if that solved the issue.
    * Left with everything working but they had Maintenance come to the pole to check everything over... he disconnected us from the Pole which created the issue again where some SDV channels would not tune.
    * I got attenuators in yesterday so I daisy chained a 8db, 6db and 3db together... SNR is still to hot but down to 37 from the 40's.
    * Unplugged everything and restarted last night after installing attenuators. SDV was working OK but EMM's would not build.
    * Checked the unit this morning and at noon. SDV still working but EMM's still at 0.

    So I just got a call from the Field Oper Mgr and she is pointing to the issue being electrical. Said that although she isn't an electrician testing the volts cuased the tv to go black. I countered that she tested the socket w/out issue... switched to a different power strip and issue was solved. Her rational does not make sense to me given the EMM's are not building, etc... She said she would lend me another cable card and tuning adapter. She wants me to hook up my Bolt (which I mothballed for the Edge thinking the bolt was the issue) in a different room with different power to see if that solves the issue. She claims she had a round table with many supervisors and they cannot figure out why my SDV's drop off...

    So questions for anyone willing to read this post.

    1. Would my high SNR ratio cause issues with the cable card not to get the EMM's? Would this create problems with my tivo not being able to tune into channels... keeping in mind when a channel is blank there is no frequency or level shown... just a -
    2. Does anyone know why Tivo states some channel provisions do not work correctly with Tuning Adapters? I'm wondering if this is my issue....
    3. Has anyone ever had tivo issues that relate to Service Grouping (the field ops manager asked if I've run into this in all the reading i'm doing on this forum)

    Any comments are appreciated!

    Jerry
     
  3. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH
    I had a Tuning Adapter for ten years ending last November when I cut cable TV and went to YouTube TV, which I’m very happy with. I was on TWC, then Spectrum and their support for TA’s was terrible. You have had more attention to your problem than I got over the ten year period, during which I had many TA problems. Where are you located?

    Because I was having problems I read the forum a lot over the years and it is obvious that TA’s are one of the worst problem sources for TiVo’s that require them, and that poor support from cable operators is very common. They are a kluge design and the approach was written off as a failure long ago by the FCC, although they officially still regulate them and the cable providers still pretend to support them.

    Sorry I don’t have any answers to your questions, although I think it’s generally good that you got your SNR down to a reasonable level. (37 dB is reasonable, no need to cut it further.)
     
  4. jerry rininger

    jerry rininger New Member

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    Aug 25, 2020
    I am in the Cleveland eastern suburbs. Mayfield heights.

    My wife noticed every time my son plays on the Xbox ( Fortnite) we lose the channels. Starting to wonder if something here is causing the issue. The modem, TA and TiVo are connected via a splitter.


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  5. Skye

    Skye Member

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    May 18, 2018

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    Ok, lets get something out of the way. The whole SNR and attenuator thing is BS. That is Tivo crap to make you go away and make your cable company figure it out. My signal level hitting my EDGE and Bolt are 10dBmv. My SNR is 47 my meter level is 100 (in fact its higher, but the meter won't show that) and my picture is rock solid. I can boost it higher, or drop it down into the 20's with no change. So what is the key you ask? With Spectrum the most important issue is the signal level on the TA. The downstream path must be near or above 0dBmv, but the MOST important signal is the return path from the TA back to Spectrum. They use a very low frequency for the return that is plagued by noise on coax portion of their network. On my system it is 10Mhz. There is little room for error at such low frequencies. If your return is too low then you will need a return path amplifier, or at the least you will need a zero gain amplified splitter at your demarcation point if you are splitting your signal at all. If your return is bad, then your TA can't communicate to Spectrum the channel you have requested.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  6. Qbert81

    Qbert81 New Member

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    Aug 29, 2019
    Do you experience any macro blocking or pixilation?
     
  7. jerry rininger

    jerry rininger New Member

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    Aug 25, 2020
    Skye

    Yep. My tuning adapter is at 10.000 MHz for RDC. The tuner is 1 dbv with and fdc of -6 and an RDC of 38 dBmv

    There is also rdc: 694usec but I don’t know what that is.

    I feel like this is the issue. It just seems like my system is asking for the channel but it’s not being told what frequency to tune and is why I get the - for frequency, modulation, program number and signal strength.

    If my number is too low what is my best option to boost the return signal.

    Thanks in advance.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Skye

    Skye Member

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    May 18, 2018
    None
     
  9. Skye

    Skye Member

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    May 18, 2018
    You need to make sure you are not splitting your signal any more than you need to. Your best bet is to get an amplified splitter with an active return. If you are concerned about sending too much signal to your EDGE with the amp you can get a 0 gain splitter amp.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  10. quern

    quern New Member

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    Dec 28, 2008
    Thanks! I only power the one TV with my TIVO. The line comes to the box on the side of the house and then to my basement. I have it to a 2 way splitter there but i only did that as a test to try and reduce the signal. I can tie it directly to the coax that goes to my TV. At the wall I have a 2 way splitter (spectrum took my 3 way). THe 2 way currently feeds the cable modem and the Tuning adapter. My tivo is directly connected to the tuning adapter because that is the spectrum way that the techs know and insisted I try.

    I don't have a need for a unit like the one you provided a link to. Is there a recommended 3 way or 4 way unit that is smaller to fit behind my TV? I think it'd be best to get a 0 gain splitter amp to not push any more signal to the Tivo and only push the return channel back... Any suggestion on what I should buy is appreciated. If this works I'll be relaying this to the spectrum team I'm working with.

    I'm also not sure how much I should try to bump up the return signal...
     
  11. Skye

    Skye Member

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    May 18, 2018
    Ok, so first you should not have your signal going thru the TA and then to the Edge. Put the two way split before the TA and feed each separately. Make sure you put a moca filter on the input to the TA.

    They don’t make a smaller than 5 port amp/splitter that I would trust. PPC is what we use at work. Your best bet is to find a way to hide it behind your gear and use it in place of any passive splitters. What you are trying to do is boost your return. Passives drop your return more than they drop the forward path. You could try to get Spectrum to supply you a reverse path amp, but most field techs would be clueless and give you a standard amp that is passive on the return. I got them to give me the PPC. I had the same issue as you, great forward signal, horrible return. I live in a high rise with 90 drops coming off an array of passive splitters in our data closets. They amp the signal to overcome all the splits.
     
  12. quern

    quern New Member

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    Dec 28, 2008
    OK. I will follow your lead. When you mention to put on a MOCA filter on the tuning adapter input what does this help accomplish? I'm not running MOCA at my house.

    I'm just trying to learn so I can pass the information along.
     
  13. Skye

    Skye Member

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    May 18, 2018
    If you are positive you have moca turned off in your Edge then you don’t need the filter. The TA does not work well with moca signals coming into its rf front end. Causes more than the usual number of TA crashes. By the way not a bad idea to reboot your TA on a regular basis. They just get stupid. I had mine on a smart switch controlled by Alexa, restarting at 3am every Sunday. I no longer use my TA btw. I found if I don’t use it I only lose 2 channels that I never watched anyway. I am on Spectrums smallest plan so if you are on a larger package you would probably lose more channels without the TA.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  14. quern

    quern New Member

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    Dec 28, 2008
    Skye:

    Please disregard that last post. I searched the form and found the information on Moca fitlers. I'll get 2. One for the incoming signal and 1 for my tuning adapter also.
     
  15. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Aug 13, 2015
    99.9% of the time, card isn't really paired or TA is disabled on Spectrum's end. I'd want proof that both are actually working before going down the signal level path. Do you see Val at a non-zero number on the card diags? What's your TA light doing?
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Nov 25, 2003
    One exception here would be if a neighbor has a live MoCA network and neither residence has a "PoE" MoCA filter in place, to isolate the MoCA signals to a given residence.
     
  17. quern

    quern New Member

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    Dec 28, 2008
    My tuning adapter light is always solid. I lose channels and it's still solid. If I unplug the Tuning adapter for 10 seconds all channels are OK again... for how long is unknown.

    I will have to check later the the Val question. I think I do but i can't say for sure.
     
  18. quern

    quern New Member

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    Dec 28, 2008
    I forgot to note that if I have a channel on that isn't coming in... after a while the tuning adapter will flash 6 times, screen goes black for 2 seconds or so... tuning adapter light goes solid and picture returns. Changing the tuner that is on a SDV which isn't coming in resolves the blinking light issue.
     
  19. Skye

    Skye Member

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    May 18, 2018
    sure sounds like you have a bad return.
     

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