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Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by murgatroyd, Aug 16, 2007.
Busy voting, will be back later.
Judges tonight: Nigel, Mary, Dan
Hoo boy would I wear earplugs if I had to sit next to Mary. "quiet down English muffin?" Somebody dilute that drink!
Opening 'Broadway' group number from Tyce was fun.
Lacey solo -- eh
Sabra & Neil doing hip hop from Shane. Damn, has Shane had bad luck this season or what? I wish I had a huge Media Jukebox because I wanted to dial up Benji and Donyelle's "Too Much Booty (in da pantz)" routine to get the bland taste out of my mouth. And the judges were similarly underwhelmed, with Nigel complaining it wasn't funky enough, Mary saying it was "too up", Dan "too bouncy".
Lacey and Danny doing a Vietnamese Waltz c/by Jean-Marc. Danny's pretty. Lacey's hands are still awful. Judges raved. I yawned. Next, please.
Neil solo. Finally Neil is actually doing a dance rather than a bag o' tricks. But has he peaked too late?
Lacey and Sabra doing the girl+girl thing c/by Wade Robson.
Can't help comparing this to the hummingbird-flower routine and the two foxes number just doesn't do it. Costumes sort of Japanese -- was wardrobe thinking 'anime'? Could work for foxes. And then the music was -- Indian? WTF? This was a train wreck worthy of Peter Sellars.
Did the choreography bring out the strengths of the dancers? Not particularly.
Well, the judges didn't get it, and I didn't either -- and had you taken these two performanes in isolation and asked me which one was in the final performance week, I would have said 'Hok and Jamie, of course'.
Thinking back on previous years, when the girl + girl performances were wicked good, *and* how good the hummingbird-flower routine was -- not to mention *several* other really fine pieces by Wade this year -- I have to say I was really disappointed.
Danny -- solo. OMG. This solo I could watch. And watch. And watch. And watch. And watch. Just the power and control of the moves. This was the performance I'd been wanting all along when Danny soloed. Quick, send this boy to the UK and put him in Dancing on Ice.
Danny & Neil, c/by Mia -- yowza yowza was that fun or what? This is the kind of energy I was hoping for (and have seen in past years) in the girl + girl number. (Actually I think the routine I am thinking of was with Melody from season one was Mia <FX: tabs over to wikipedia> -- yes, Ashlé Dawson and Melody Lacayanga, "Message in a Bottle", choreography by Mia Michaels. The season two girl + girl number was just sort of eh.)
Sabra's solo -- <shrug> She's gorgeous as usual, but I feel as if it doesn't matter what music she is dancing to. I could just turn the sound off and get the same effect.
Lacey & Neil, Lindy Hop c/by Nick & Kirsten. Well, this routine was hard. And it looked hard. They made a good run at it, but the struggle showed. I would have liked to been watching this with the Lindy Hop dancers from the audition rounds - and heard what THEY had to say about it. My feeling is that those kids could have whupped' the stuffing out of poor Lacey and Neil, no matter the praise of the judges.
Sabra & Danny, cha cha c/by Melanie La Patin. Although really wasn't this more like a Latin Medley? Aren't some of those moves usually found in the samba? I pretty much agree with the judges that the beginning was iffy but at the slow part they kicked it up a notch or two. Nice performance quality, even if the technique was not the best. And oh, what a pity we could not have seen more performances with Danny and Sabra over the course of this show. Feh.
So: performances of the night: Neil and Danny in Mia's 'two princes' routine, and Danny's solo.
The 'not worthy of the finale raspberry' goes to Mary Murphy for dumbest comment ("English Muffin" ? WTF? ), Wade Robson (WTF was he thinking) for choreography, and for performance, Sabra and Nieil for Shane's hip-hop. Honorable mention raspberry , 'wake me when it is over' to Jean Marc G. for the Viennese (almost typed 'Vietnamese' there) Waltz. Big raspberry to the new show structure that pairs dancers WAY too long. Imagine what it would have been like to see Sabra and Danny all year long.
I voted for both Sabra and Danny -- when I could get through. Lots of busy signals for Sabra at first, whatever that's worth.
I watched this show and was completely and totally disappointed. So disappointed, I didn't even want to post about it last night, I wanted to let it sink in overnight and see if I woke up with any different feelings...and the answer is no.
They were all equally forgettable this evening, with the exception of Danny & Neil's solos and paired performance, but I still feel 'too little, too late' for them.
Lacey didn't look as bad this week - only because everyone else did, IMO. Her solo was THE worst of the bunch, hubby was on the phone with Skittles, looked up at the TV and made a comment to him that had something to do with 'bad flashdance costume' or something - and I have to agree.
The fox routine was awful. I was bored, and I didn't watch the backstory, so I didn't know they were supposed to be foxes until the jidges mentioned it. The costuming was awful, the makeup was awful, the music didn't match the performance, and..well...I didn't get it either. It didn't play to EITHER of their strengths, and to me it seemed more like Wade trying to do something 'offbeat' than trying to showcase the talent he was given. Big thumbs down.
I wasn't happy with the opening number, either - I think they did ok with what they were given, but with the exception of the boy-boy number, the choreography was singularly uninspired and forgettable. The Viennese waltz was pretty, but Lacey's lines were bad. Danny was constantly compensating for her in those lifts, and it *shouldn't be that obvious that he was doing so*
With the Lindy hop? The jidges talked about 'energy throughout the performance', but to me it seemed incredibly slow, not very complex, and it was clear that Lacey missed some of her steps and misremembered her choreography a few times, because Neil had to get her back on track. If she wins this, it's a travesty.
I'm disappointed with Sabra, too. She had a chance to really really pull away here, and she didn't take it. While she was beautiful, and I am incredibly impressed with her performances and her dancing, she didn't take it to the level it should've gone to this week. I blame the choreographers for most of it, but she didn't step up to the challenge and make the most of a really bad situation.
I'm still processing. I thought it was the worst finale show of the 3 seasons, and I had really hoped for so much more with the people that were on that stage.
Well I have to do a mea culpa and give it to Danny. I think the girls were weaker than the boys this week. Neil looked especially tired in his final pairing number. He just didn't have the energy to do the kicks as fast as the music.
Its a bit of a struggle but I guess the order should be
If you consider for the whole season it probably should be
I am beginning to wish the judgesput out scores so I could add them up.
Dissapointed as well, but the whole production and judging left me feeling that the producers want Lacy or Danny to win.
I watched Danny's solo in slo-mo maybe five times. It was the best part of the whole two hours, 90 minutes of which we could have done without.
His series of jumps there at the beginning (is that a coupe jetes en menege? the roundy roundy roundy stage perimeter thing) was just thrilling- I adore that move!
One other comment I forgot was how many times I think the dancers have been screwed by the choreographers. I think in the finale they should stick to traditional fair and let the dancers dance so we can compare better. It seems so many times the choreography gets in the way and thats not fair for the finale.
Last week's episode should have been the finale. A lot of amazing choreography then and some great dancing. This week was bland. Nothing all that great. Even the 2 princes thing seemed more like a stage fight than a dance for me. The foxes routine wasn't quite as bad as everyone has been saying, but it was mostly acting and not much dancing.
As good of a technical dancer as he is, I don't care for Danny. He still doesn't come through as being genuine.
Neil is by far the most improved. I think he may have a good shot at winning since he's well liked and has gotten better each week.
Sabra is my pick mainly because she has been so consistent all season. Very good and giving her all each time. Even though none of her performances wowed this week.
I really hope Lacey doesn't win. Especially after hearing how she was pushed into competing and kept quitting throughout the years, only to start again because her brother won last year. I don't think she would have nearly the fan base if it wasn't for Benji.
Sabra was not great last night but this is what the competition is about for me is who ever grew the most over the year.
Danny was just incredible last night. Most of his stuff is technically good and mostly forgettable but he kicked some ass last night.
I voted for both Sabra and Danny.
My 7 year old son voted for Sabra 3 times. My 12 year old daughter voted for Sabra and Neil. I didn't vote.
I agree with most of the comments here. Wade WTF were you thinking? They want a woman to win and you have them dance this piece of crap!
Sabra, if you want us to believe youve only been dancing for 4 years, dont show childhood dance photos! Although, it did look like it hurt when Dom dropped you.
Danny-awesome solo. I was a Danny hater but you won me over.
My new prediction after Wades disaster? One of the boy will walk away with it.
Danny was amazing last night. Simply amazing. One of the best dances I've ever seen. But IMO, Danny has always been amazing. Powerful and moving. I know people don't like him in that he doesn't cut up a lot...but that has to do with his ballet training, I think. It took me a while to understand that.
I loved the showdown with him and Neil.
I admit I was disappointed with them throwing a lindy hop in there for the finale. Besides being brutal to Lacey and Neil, I don't think it was right to throw in such a difficult style that no one had done this season. Why not just toss in a tap number?
I also liked the fox number. I knew a lot of other people wouldn't like it as soon as I heard the concept, but I thought it was beautiful and very well done by both dancers. I also like that the choreographers try new things, explore and experiement. Sure, it's not always going to be a hit and it will occasionally screw the dancers. But it sometimes also makes for some very special "WOW!" moments that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to experience. I don't want safe and generic. That's not what dance is about.
I'm not a Lacey fan. Haven't been all season. Her comment about how many times she's quit dance, only to jump back in when Benji won kinda sealed it for me.
Yeah, what's with that?
Whether I liked it or not is not relevant. I do not object to the idea, nor to choreographers experimenting. I object because the piece did not work for me, and from the sound of the comments the judging panel made, it didn't work for them either.
Yesterday I was leafing through my copy of Tim Gunn's book A Guide to Quality, Taste and Style and came upon a passage where Tim says he asks his students at Parsons not to say I like it or I don't like it when commenting upon work in class. He asks them to say WHY the piece appeals (or doesn't) and address the technical issues.
In the case of Wade's hummingbird-flower routine I could easily go on at some length about why I think it is a masterpiece, and why the performance was exquisite. I could list specific points of excellence in choreography and execution, all of which could be used to compare/contrast with other dances on the show or other movement-based arts, whether in the same style or a different one.
For the two foxes routine, I cannot. Granted, when I do not 'like' a piece, the dancers have an uphill battle to convince me that the choreography was worthy. But no matter how beautifully Lacey and Sabra might have danced at individual moments in the routine, they did not convince me, nor did they convince the judges.
If the dancers did not convince me, but the judges rave about a piece (e.g. Mia Michael's routine where young Mia dances with her father), I am perfectly willing to say that something more is going on in a piece that I must have missed. Similarly if I can make explicit what I liked, even though the judges didn't like it (e.g. Mia Michael's piece with the the goggles and the rubber gloves), I can make the same argument as you about experiemental works, but I can also say why the piece appeals to me. So if I had Nigel & Co. in my living room, I could say, "look at X, look at Y, look at Z, these elements are very satisfactory to me, and I think the dancers performed especially well here" and make the case for why I thought it was a successful experiment.
But when I don't think a piece came off, and the judges too are struggling to evaluate it, I am forced to conclude that on some level it was not performed well enough. Lacey and Sabra couldn't sell it to me, and they couldn't sell it to the judges either. This is bad.
Whatever the virtue of the two foxes might be as a work to watch in performance, I will say boldly that it fails utterly as a competition piece, in that it did not give the two dancers a showcase for what they, as individual dancers, could do especially well, nor does it have the element of 'surprise' in bringing out qualities the dancers had which we had not seen before (contrast this with the angel/devil piece where Neil made a huge leap forward in performance ability).
I am open to hear more about what you liked, and I'm willing to watch the piece again to see things I missed. But on the first viewing, I have to say, I can't see the 'way in'. And when I compare this piece to earlier in the season, when most of Wade's pieces reached out and grabbed me by the throat and didn't let go, I'm tremendously disappointed.
I hate the fox dance, Lacey's solo, and I wasn't too crazy about the two princes. I thought it was more of roleplaying than dancing.
I tried to vote for Sabra, but couldn't get through. Tonight should be interesting.
I wish I had had the time to watch his solo in slo-mo. It is certainly worthy.
I don't have the vocabulary either, so I can't name the move. But I can say that if you are going to do the same move over and over and around and around like that, just as when Scotty Hamilton does off three double Axels in a row, it is not as simple as they make it look. You had better be a brilliant technician, because if you are the least bit off-balance when you land from the one leap it is going to show up like crazy when you have to adjust in between to make the takeoff for the next. And Danny was tossing them off like it was nothing.
This had the sense of effortlessnes, the feeling of "I'm just playin' around here" that conveys the idea I am the master of my domain. Absolutely brilliant.
And the other place, where he changed the speed of his revolution -- !
The power, the control -- and finally, the relation to the music that I didn't see earlier.
Gotta love it.
Jan, I have no problem if you didn't like it. I just said I liked it. I also said I knew immediately that most other people wouldn't.
The comment about choreography was more pointed towards comments I hear every so often about how they shouldn't put together "weird" dances. The Kiddo once explained to me that when you're putting a dance together in the studio, it seems perfect. Everything hits and others rave about it. Then you do it for the first time on stage and halfway through you think, "What the hell was I thinking? This sucks!" Maybe that's what happened last night. I don't have any points to explain why I liked it, I just did. I guess for the same reasons I DIDN'T like the hummingbird dance earlier. It just didn't do it for me. It was ok to me, but that's all. I even commented here that that suprised me, because I love contemporary dance and it should have been right in my wheelhouse. (shrug)
I don't want this show to go to safe dances. I'm willing to put up with the flops to get to the next bench dance. Saying this isn't pointed at anything specific, I just worry.
15 pirouettes! Unreal. Like you said, with different speeds and arms. Just incredible! I really thought he owned the show last night.
(My boyfriend looked over after we had watched it for the 6th or 7th time and asked how we will be able to see him when he goes back to his company. I asked him if he would seriously go to a strictly dance show. He told me, "Yeah. If he's in it." Roger is becoming a dance fan, and I can thank Danny for it! )
I was so glad to see that Nigel pointed out that Lacey's been doing the same kind of dancing and finger pointing and sexy thang.
Sure, I understand that. I have had plenty of moments on the show where I liked certain things in the behind-the-scenes footage, then when I saw the same move on the big stage, it just didn't come off.
In my one brief try at workshopping fiction, I learned it is valuble to give specific notes, both for the parts you thought were especially good AND the parts you thought were broken.
So the thing that does bother me about your commentary is that as I said before, we could watch the hummingbird-flower routine and I could go over it point by point saying why it works for me. I'm not saying that if I like it, you have to like it, too, but theoretically, if I pointed out some stuff you missed, maybe you would be able to appreciate the construction of it on a technical level more, even if you didn't like it any better than you did before.
It bothers me that you say 'I don't have any points to explain why I liked it, I just did. ' because -- selfish me -- I can't learn anything from that which will help me appreciate what Wade was trying to do, even if I don't like it any better. I want to feel that I have given the piece a chance, but when I can't understand what Wade was trying to do, and the judges can't figure it out either, I am left with nothing. Without clear, specific notes, I can't step up my performance as a watcher.