So, will there be a NON-HD Series 3?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Jasoco, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. Jan 8, 2006 #21 of 117

    dylanemcgregor Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2003
    Corner of...


    Just speaking from my personal experience, which I realize is not a random sample, I know about 20 people with TiVos. 2 of them have satellite, 2 have digital cable, 4 or OTA only, and the rest are various levels of analog cable. The majority of the people I know with analog cable and OTA have it both because of cost (they can not justify spending $60 a month or more for TV) but they also do not want another box to control watching TV.

    I myself am adamantly opposed to being forced into getting an additional box. My hope\expectation is that by the time the switchover happens downloadable TV is much further along and broadcast TV is on the way to becoming a memory. If not I might just give up TV for a couple of years until then.

  2. Jan 8, 2006 #22 of 117

    lajohn27 Fanboi.. So what?

    Dec 29, 2003
    I can only add that the vast majority of people I know with cable - have analog cable only. Most of them can afford more.. they just don't want more. But they do want (or have) TIVO to maximize their viewing experience.

    Try to think of a TIVO more like a VCR and less like a fancy tech device. Because that's how these very non-digital friends of mine see it.

    So yes, I think those analog cable users are likely to buy a TIVO. And I think that the current box will be sold into the marketplace in one form or another for some time yet to come.

    And to reiterate.. the Taiwan box already has a reference design, a manufacturing spec and is being manufactured. Porting this over to the North American market would not be difficult.

    Further, it has been said that the TIVO Greater China deal was more about TIVO getting a beach-head in China so that they could benefit from certain export rules for manufactured pieces to North America.

    Which again - would greatly lower costs for hardware regardless of S2 or S3.

    And then there is the Canadian market which TIVO has recently begun supporting. They haven't sold any hardware into this market (yet) but they say they will before June of 2006. And cablecard will not be an option in Canada till 2010 at least.. leaving people craving the TIVO experience.. with just the S2 (or its replacement) as an option.
  3. Jan 8, 2006 #23 of 117

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

    Oct 31, 2003
    Potato and pen.
    Standard Def NTSC channels are to be discontinued in the United States in a few years.

    The series 3 supposedly will have NTSC tuners in it, so it must be able to record SD channels. This gives the machine usefullness now and later.
  4. Jan 8, 2006 #24 of 117

    classicsat Astute User

    Feb 18, 2004
    Ontario Canada.
    First off, I don't see what people that don't care for HD, would want an S3 (as demoed), that an S2 couldn't do.

    That said, depending on the design of the 648 (demoed CES S3) unit, one could strip down the production to one tuner set (one digital, one analog), HD out, HDD size reduced, and the drop the OLED display, to make a cheaper SD only version of it (644?).

    Or they could redesign the S2 platform to include an ATSC/QAM/Cablecard tuner (and include ethernet this time), and pacify those that still use external STBs, that want the "next thing".

    I do have a feeling there could be new hardware outside of the 648, as they are holding out to release something to Canada, as the 648 is practically unuseable here.
  5. Jan 8, 2006 #25 of 117
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    Mar 29, 2005


    Hand the man a cigar. TGC's manufacturer is USI- they manufacture boards in Mainland China, and have an assembly plant in Tijuana, so boxes could come in under Nafta, should that card ever be needed.

    I see your prediction and raise you. They'll execute on the 2004 plan that Humax backed out of.

    Yep- An S3 in a HDTV flat screen built in Mainland China. Why a perfect match? Just try and sell a noname chinese flat screen against a Samsung or Apple Viiv Flat screen and there will be a lot of skepticism. Sell it with the Tivo brand, and they stores won't be able to stock enough of them. Put an S2 in an EDTV and you have a DVR 42 inch Flatscreen for just over $1000. Maybe less.

    But we know all this. The hardware costs are shared with the flat screen- don't need a power supply, the circuit board can be shared with that of the Flatscreen- you can throw out parts because no display out connections need be made, you share the IR input, etc etc etc.
  6. Jan 8, 2006 #26 of 117

    lajohn27 Fanboi.. So what?

    Dec 29, 2003
    Bold Justin - Bold -- on the prediction. :)

    I just can't help but thing that the TIVO Greater China deal is way more than meets the eye. Especially considering that the former head of all things techy at TIVO, Ta Wai Chien (or something similar) is now the CEO and Grand Poobah of TCG.

    Coincidence? I think not.

    Also.. check out an interesting site for sure..

    Now I've seen that much.. I'm convinced Justin is on the right 'thinking path' here.. probably way moreso than I was.
  7. Jan 9, 2006 #27 of 117
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    Mar 29, 2005
    You can bet money Apple will announce a flat panel with Viiv inside to smooth the way with Hollywood. Heck that's almost what their latest computers are anyway. Steve is just hanging it on the wall and suggesting everyone get plugged into iTunes instead of their carriers.

    And some Macaholics will- god help them- (and their credit card limits).

    God help us- some Tivoholics will buy a Tivo embedded in a Flat panel. I don't know how soon mind you- but a Tivo embedded in a flat screen is as inevitable as the sun coming up in the morning.
  8. Jan 9, 2006 #28 of 117

    elrcastor New Member

    Mar 7, 2004

    It's supposed to be
  9. Jan 9, 2006 #29 of 117

    dswallow Save the ModeratŠ¾r TCF Club

    Dec 3, 2000
    Am I missing something? I didn't find anything interesting on that site... basically two paragraphs of moderately generic MBA-speak, a list of some of the principals involved and a listing of a couple job openings.
  10. Jan 9, 2006 #30 of 117

    dmdeane sedentary adventurer

    Apr 17, 2000
    Yes. I'm one of them. I have no desire (currently) to pay extra for what's on digital cable and I don't have any desire (currently) to replace a perfectly fine, functioning 7 year old analog TV set. I can wait. Whereas I could not wait to get TiVo because it makes it possible to watch the TV shows I want to watch which I could not have watched otherwise. I know plenty of other people like me. This is strictly anecdotal evidence but I think TiVo has done some market research on this topic which is why they are pushing to get the analog cable TV consumers to buy TiVos - it's an area where TiVo can add value to consumers not interested in cable co.'s digital TV DVRs.
  11. Jan 9, 2006 #31 of 117

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    they are talking about the reference design work we typically associate with TiVo, inc. This leads back to what I said before about TiVo, inc. "getting out" of the hardware business by passing it off this subsidiary and getting all the benefits posted above along with the huge markets of Asia. The S2 will be around for a long while like VCRs are still around

  12. Jan 9, 2006 #32 of 117

    lajohn27 Fanboi.. So what?

    Dec 29, 2003

    I'm spitballing big picture here.

    The company that is making a box in China/Taiwan.. that is a TIVO... with higher resolution, bigger hard drive.. built in Ethernet.. is being headed by the former guy who headed all technical development and engineering at TIVO Inc. USA.

    The company - in China/Taiwan - can build components in China.. export them to Mexico for assembly and then import them to the U.S. for sale. Because the company TGC has an operating base in the US and in China.. they get preferred treatment for exports to the US under the deal that Clinton signed all those years ago.

    Because of the NAFTA agreement, they can assemble those components in Mexico (or China) and the resulting box would have a lower cost than TIVO boxes have had to date.

    Why would a company called TIVO GREATER CHINA have a website for the USA unless they intend to do some business in the USA. Probably with TIVO.
  13. Jan 9, 2006 #33 of 117
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    Mar 29, 2005
    I don't recall that- what are they doing- allowing 720x480? The tivo can output up to that, but there is no point because typical cable comes in at 480x480. My assumption is that the TGC motherboard is largely identical to the current broadcom based design. It's usually safest to assume the simplest possible scenario first. Those are usually the most likely ones.

    The company that is doing the manufacturing is USI "Universal Scientific International"- they are the ones with the PRC and TJ plants. More info in the earlier TGC thread.
  14. Jan 9, 2006 #34 of 117

    MickeS Active Member

    Dec 26, 2002
    Another one of "those people" here. :)
    In fact, TiVo is perfect for those like me: if you don't have digital cable, you can't get the cable provider's DVR (they require digital here at least). Also, with TiVo, there really isn't a need to get digital cable: I can stream music stations off the Internet, or mp3's from my PC, I can record a ton of shows so I don't need digital cable to find something to watch when I sit down, and you get the EPG through TiVo, something you don't get if you don't have digital cable.

    I've said it before, but I think those of us without digital cable should be (or should have been) a major target for TiVo.
  15. Jan 9, 2006 #35 of 117

    lajohn27 Fanboi.. So what?

    Dec 29, 2003

    Well now I don't know whether to believe it or not.. but YOU posted it.... (sheesh)

    And the point is that a higher resolution recording.. is going to look better..

    Even on an SD set.
  16. Jan 9, 2006 #36 of 117

    Shawn95GT Tivo, in HD!

    Oct 7, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    I know I'm not the only one with a ATSC tuner hanging off of a S2 Tivo.

    The PQ on the HD stuff isn't as nice as you get via component / DVI / HDMI from the ATSC tuner but it looks pretty darn good. Better than anything coming from the cable co, that's for sure!
  17. Jan 9, 2006 #37 of 117
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    Mar 29, 2005
    Ooops. Completely forgot. Sorry. I purged that info when Charles came back and said they were all analog cable in Taiwan and weren't switching over for a while. Even when they generate a high quality image, after Mpeg2 encoding, it isn't going to look any better than how the Toshiba or Humax DVD players do. (720x480)

    Quoting the 720x540 max resolution is only meaningful when they have TivoToGo Back and Direct internet downloads working, or allow some sort of direct digital transfer from digital cable boxes, DVD or DVHS players through the USB port.
  18. Jan 9, 2006 #38 of 117

    ADent Active Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    Denver, CO
    Federal law requires DVRs like TiVo to have an ATSC tuner by 3/1/2007.

    So a SD only TiVo could only be built until then.

    Now a single tuner or non-CableCard unit could be brought to market at a lower price point.
  19. Jan 9, 2006 #39 of 117

    dick_kah New Member

    Jan 4, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Can we get our terms right?? NTSC are analog signals. ATSC are digital signals. ATSC can be SD(480p or 480I) or HD(720P or 1080I/P) The FCC will cancel all analog broadcasting in 2009. It will allow digital only after that date. The digital signal can be SD(Standard defination) or HD(High Defination)

  20. Jan 9, 2006 #40 of 117

    audiocrawford New Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    Same here. Digital Cable in my area is a wasteland - just a bunch of reruns of crap I can already see thanks to timeshifting on TiVo.

    TiVo works flawlessly with analog cable, and since the day I brought it in my home I've never once not had something to watch. I just don't understand how some people don't understand that just because you can have more channels, you'd want them.

    The other stuff that goes along with digital cable? Well, PPV is a rip-off to me as I have Netflix, and my TiVo streams all my digital music from my PC, so why would I want generic stations like it's elevator music?

    I understand how some people do see the value, but it's certainly not for everyone.


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