So What do think abou the HR20?

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That cant be the thread he is talking about, unless I am reading it wrong, only 24% said its not ready and the majority of the respondants 41% said it was. Or am I missing something?

 

If you are referring that to me, no the sampling I took was not from a poll. It was instead a regular thread.

 

Thats what I figured.

 

The point is that the majority of Tivo owners don't think the product is better than a Tivo, just as I have been saying for months.

DirecTV offers no choice at the moment. But, is that a wise move? I don't think so.

 

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What I was referring too.... was the Poll Milo started, was a result of the "question" raised in the thread you were referring to that you collected your data from.

 

Oh, ok. Since I am interested in a Tivo or a unit perceived to be better then Tivo, his poll, while interesting, did not address my area of interest.

 

I just have to ask, why do you care? Does the HR20 have to be "better" then Tivo?

DirecTV's sub numbers keep going up and churn is down. All the while 125,000 (and growing) DirecTivo subs are lost every quarter. No indication if they all leave DirecTV and being that churn is actually down I'd say no. And this is with over 2 years of no SD DirecTivo option and over a year of no HD DirecTivo option. And record HD sub growth.

Dish seems to be doing just fine with their DVR which many would say is not "better" then the Tivo. And cable with their tens of millions of non-Tivo DVR subs seem to be doing fine despite definately not being "better" then Tivo.

So again, please enlighten us in what reality does it matter if Tivo is "better" or not? Does it matter if HR20 owners would prefer a Tivo if they don't leave DirecTV? Of course it doesn't matter. You're really starting to reach now.

 

I have been engaged in a fairly long discourse with DirecTV support on this issue. I really am hoping that other people are doing the same. Essentially what I have said (and it's true; I'm not just getting blustery here) is that although I think DirecTV is great, and have been a subscriber for nearly ten years, I will drop DirecTV in a heartbeat if Comcast suddenly comes up with an HD channel lineup better than what's available on MPEG-2 through DirecTV, or if DirecTV drops its MPEG-2 HD channels.

I am angry over DirecTV's failure to offer a TiVo alternative to its DVR; and although the customer service people have repeatedly tried to pitch the new DVR to me I have made it very clear that I will not accept it. I won't accept it for a price; I won't accept it for free; I want a TiVo; I would pay good money for a TiVo; and if they won't provide it I will just move to digital cable, with all of the bad service and inconvenience that represents, because it will allow me to go on using TiVo indefinitely.

My fear is that they've convinced themselves that TiVo versus a crappy DVR is really not an important difference; and that, if they force their customers to accept their DVR, the customers will follow along. I am trying to make the case that this is not so; that DirecTV can survive only by continuing to offer superior service; and that the distinction between TiVo and their piece-of-crap unit is important enough for them to lose subscribers over. It certainly will be the cause of my termination of DirecTV service, if they don't get their act together on this.

So, if you're a TiVo fundamentalist like me, try writing to customer service; and don't let them lure you into some sort of special deal on the new DVR (I had to go about four rounds with them before they stopped trying to pull that switch), but keep pressing the point and ask them to forward your e-mail to the people who make decisions about this sort of thing.

 

I now have 3 HR20's and 1 HR10. At first I was reluctant to make the switch, but while I still prefer some things about the TiVo, I'd probably go with the HR20 if I had to choose one over the other. Pros and cons:

HR20 Pros:
Many more HD channels.
Increased recording capacity due to mpeg-4 locals and ease of adding external hard drive.
Ability to use the menu and list with the show (either live or recorded) still playing (although I wish that could be turned off when I turn it on in the middle of a game I'm recording, or a show that I'm weeks behind on).
Only records first run episodes that are actually first run episodes, so my SP's don't pick up dozens of Simpsons reruns with generic guide data throughout the week.
Space remaining indicator.
Brings up both options to cancel when a request creates a 3-way conflict.
I actually like the 30-second "slip" sometimes. I don't feel as left out of friends' conversations about funny commercials any more.

HR10 Pros:
DLB's - Would like to have as an option, but carries very little weight for me personally.
Keep At Most with Save Until I Delete works the way I'd like it to - stops recording new episodes once it reaches the limit. (HR20 deletes the oldest)
30-second skip.
Skip-to-tick a lot easier to use.
Guide grid with side-by-side option.

 

RS,

Why don't you give all 6 key warnings? Why not tell the whole truth?

Also, I added this link under resources:

Would you Recommend the HR20 to a Freind? Poll of 767 HR20 users: 92% say "Yes".

I never could find your poll that said 24% of HR20 users liked the HR20. So I ran this one. To me the only test of a product is if real users would recommend the existing product to a friend.

Also, did you see that the CIR rollout started last week? The Channels I Receive filter has been the number one request for the HR20. That is by far my biggest request.

Finally, it will be interesting to see how people feel after the rollout of VOD in the next couple of weeks. They will find they have 1,000 added choices. I never thought I would use Video on Demand but we have downloaded on average one movie extra a week using it.

- Craig

 

Well said.

 

Had my HR20-700 installed this weekend. We moved the HR10-250 to another room.

So far, eh, good and bad. The range of HD channels is definitely good - and my pic is clearer (my OTA is good, but not 100%).

The bad...
The UI is definitely NOT better - but being used to tivo, it's to be expected. Do I hate it? No, just isn't as slick as tivo.
Since Sunday install, I've had to unplug reboot twice - the box stops accepting remote commands.
Since Sunday install, I've had various sound drop outs. Annoying but not a deal breaker.

It's 6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other. The HD is very seductive.

At this point, if someone told me I had to give up one of the boxes, either the HR10 or the HR20, I actually would have to think about it. I really do like the expanded HD programming.

 

The HR20 will never be the preferred DVR until is has DLB, period. I've tried using it as my main DVR, but I just can't. I keep going back to my HDTiVo. Plus, the elegant simplicity of the TiVo interface is just plain better in most respects. Sure, the HR20 has all the new HD channels and has a few other advantages, but it still needs work. I am impressed that D* releases updates regularly, but it still needs DLB.

 

I can understand that DLB is important for many, especially sports fans, but for me, it's a non-issue. Nevertheless I'd like to see DirecTV support it. I'd much rather see them fix the Channels I Receive bug, which bites me almost every day.

The UI is a bit strange (you can't get to all of it from one place as you can on TiVo) but it's ok. It does things TiVo doesn't.

 

After being with HR20-100 about 3+ months, I now ended up using HR10 as a backup recording for it due to too many "canceled due to no longer in the guide" or the likes....

 

Craig, once again you are in a Tivo forum trying to convert Tivo owners. I'm always surprised that the forum owners and the moderator allow that, especially in light of the polls showing Tivo users still prefer the Tivo over the HR20. Look at Earls posts, they are much more relevant then yours which did not even reference the Tivo.

Also remind them that your suggestion of keeping the HR10-250 is giving another $60 a year to a company that still has a second-rated dvr according to Earl's polls and all of the other threads I've read. So, in effect, you're saying reward this company for mediocre equipment.

It's fine to encourage all of the folks you want, but be honest with them. But, let them know that more than half of them want an mpeg4 Tivo, so they can make an honest decision. I certainly agree that the whole truth is the way to go.

 

Amen

 

The "votes" are one thing... but the reasons for the votes are another.

The responses to why people vote the way they do... is what is the "meat" of those threads/polls.

If you read the posts.... A LOT of people gave the edge to one box over the other because of 1 or 2 things....

That is a FAR FAR CRY... from people selecting one because one is mediocre and one is not.

A lot of the people the voted... also did so assuming things that this fictious new DTiVo would have all the featuers of a Series 3.... anyone want to bet that if one is built, it would not have all the features?

There were an awfull lot of "yes, buts.." in those replies.

 

Here is yet another poll showing that owners prefer the Tivo Favorite Box poll

If you take one of the longer threads like I did and dissect it, or look at engadget, or other threads here, the sentiment is generally the same - there are always people who prefer the HR20, but the majority wants a Tivo HD Mpeg4. No matter how you slice it, the Tivo is always the winner among Tivo owners.

 

RS4 that is so statistically inaccurate. I would make a pretty clear assumption that only those who own or owned a TIVO would ever want a new TIVO. Sadly for TIVO that was never a particularly large number. DirecTV has a huge customer base that has never owned a TIVO who will be more than impressed by the HR20. In addition a lot of users at DBSTalk are TIVO owners that again does not represent the population in general.

Now as always you tend to send me off track. My position is that TIVO is better but HR20 is more than good enough and gives you access to the new channels. There is no reason for you to be so passionately anti-HR20 in my opinion. Supporting TIVO does not automatically mean you have to be anti HR20 - in my opinion of course.

I for one am not trying to convert anyone, I am trying to belay you convincing TIVO owners that the HR20 has no merit.