So what am I paying for???

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by frayedend, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. Mar 14, 2006 #1 of 180
    frayedend

    frayedend New Member

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    Hi,

    I've only had tivo for a few months, but I just got a new Dell computer with a tv tuner and windows xp media center edition.

    The computer looks up my guide information. It allows me to search for programs. It also allows me to schedule "record all" with the options of repeats or not. It allows me to pause live tv, record etc. It really does every thing that tivo does except record things that it "thinks" I might like. Is that feature really worth 12.95/month? I can also connect the computer to my tv and for another 100 bucks or so I could have dual tv tuners and record one channel while watching another.

    So what am I really getting out of tivo? I won't get rid of it now, since I am using the computer in the office and not in the main living area. But if I had easy access I could connect to the tv and get almost all the benefits of tivo.
     
  2. Mar 14, 2006 #2 of 180
    Okeemike

    Okeemike Tastes like lemons

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    I've got MCE as well, and when I think what you'll find is that the MCE 'experience' isn't seamless. The OS pokes its head through way too much. Granted, it does what Tivo does, except for Suggestions - and if that's not a big deal to you, then you're good to go. However, for the majority of consumers, having a PC in the Family Room is just still foreign to them. however, for kids in the bedrooms, college students, etc., MCE might be a very good solution.
     
  3. Mar 14, 2006 #3 of 180
    frayedend

    frayedend New Member

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    That's what I was thinking. Right now, it isn't in my living room and I do want to keep my tivo for that reason. But I can definitely see a future with integrated computer and a wireless networked house. I think that the fact that it is available via computer without the monthly fee makes tivo's future a bit shakey. They will definitely need to come up with more benefits to make it worth it.
     
  4. Mar 14, 2006 #4 of 180
    MickeS

    MickeS Active Member

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    That's what they're trying to do right now, with their expanded networking functionality and applications. Who knows if they'll succeed, but at least they're working on it.

    I agree that a PC solution makes more sense in some cases, but the reality for me is that a PC has cost as its only advantage. A standalone solution, be it TiVo, dvd-burner, dvd-player, answering machine, fax... is normally much easier to deal with and much more reliable, at least in a multi-user household.
     
  5. Mar 14, 2006 #5 of 180
    MikeMar

    MikeMar Go Pats

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    I like TiVo a lot more than a PC, cause PC's are more of a pain to manage and all. Rather just have it setup and know it will work, one less aggravation.

    Rather have a TiVo box I can bring around and stick it in a spot by my TV and not have a computer there.

    The TiVo software is great, kinda a set it and forget it (infomercial :)) kinda thing.

    Easy enough to transfer the shows to my computer to have as well. Very easy.
     
  6. Mar 14, 2006 #6 of 180
    dt_dc

    dt_dc Mostly Harmless

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    While Microsoft doesn't charge a recurring fee for guide data (and software updates and everything else that gets sent to your box/PC) ... it does cost them to provide it. Some companies (Microsoft) are willing to absorb this cost ... some companies (Tivo) aren't.

    Also, the Microsoft / LG LRM-519 (standalone DVR w/ DVD burner) which uses the Microsoft Program Guide and pulled guide data from the exact same place as MCE PCs ... when it was first introduced they did charge a subscription fee ($249 lifetime, $99.99 yearly, or $9.99 monthly). After a couple months they dropped the sub fees.

    Anyway ... competition is good ... it'll be interesting to see where the market goes ... etc.
     
  7. Mar 14, 2006 #7 of 180
    MickeS

    MickeS Active Member

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    It's interesting how MS and TiVo went different ways in trying to attract customers - MS dropping the sub fee, TiVo dropping the hardware fee. IMHO... I think TiVo made the wrong choice. We'll see, but I hope I'm wrong.
     
  8. Mar 14, 2006 #8 of 180
    frayedend

    frayedend New Member

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    But I didn't get my free set of steak knives or the hamburger rotisserie attachment. I'm kinda bummed out because if I decide to return the tivo, the steak knives and hamburger attachment were supposed to be mine to keep (just pay shipping and handling of $89.95).
     
  9. Mar 14, 2006 #9 of 180
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    For those that are satisfied with MCE, just wait 'til you can buy inexpensive Networked Digital Media Receivers that you can put anywhere in the house you have a TV or enterainment system to extend your playback from the MCE PC right to where you like to watch/listen.
     
  10. Mar 14, 2006 #10 of 180
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    Looks like TiVo and MS have been going seperate ways in 'sub' acquistion too. MS is getting more buyers while TiVo's Net Sub Adds dropped from FY05 to FY06. :eek:

    TiVo did this with higher SAC, meaning their Sub acquisition became even less efficient than it was.
     
  11. Mar 14, 2006 #11 of 180
    MikeMar

    MikeMar Go Pats

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    I think the biggest thing hurting TiVo overall is simply this. Where they fall

    There are basically 4 groups of people

    -Tech people that would just build their own DVR cause they can/want to and enjoy it
    -Regular people who want a DVR, and say, ooo look cable DVR is cheaper, let's get that.
    -Tech/somewhat techy people who know what TiVo is about and want it (probably most of us here)
    -People who get TiVo cause of the brand recognition and think it will work better for them (of course it will)

    I think the MAJORITY of the people out there fall into the simple price issue, so of course TiVo will lose out on that (especially w/ no lifetime now)
    And the next big roup is the tech people who will build there own.
    Then probably the people here, who know what TiVo is about and spread the word, and probably got into it to start cause they are somewhat techy.

    Those are just my 2 cents on this all.
     
  12. Mar 14, 2006 #12 of 180
    frayedend

    frayedend New Member

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    Well all I can say about the benefit of having both is I don't need to network my tivo to my computer now. I can just record and burn dvds of the things I want to keep on my computer and use Tivo for the shows I will watch and discard. Now if I can just figure out what program to buy to burn copies of protected movies...
     
  13. Mar 14, 2006 #13 of 180
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    well you are paying for the computer and the MCE license. :)

    I jsut bought a new HP PC with Media Center on it. More for a new Kitchen PC than as a media center but the price was good. I had it find my music last night - MP3s - it found them all but the sound was not playing correctly at all, So at some point I will have to figure that out.

    yet after installing TiVodesktop - the playing of MP3s worked just as before.


    I still vote for TiVo as easier to use and thus worth the price, of course that would be a marketing message that has proven hard for TiVo to get across.
     
  14. Mar 14, 2006 #14 of 180
    lajohn27

    lajohn27 Fanboi.. So what?

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    Umm.. pardon me if I'm being stupid.. but isn't an MCE capable computer a heck of a lot more cash than a TIVO? Like umm.. 6-10x more for the hardware?
     
  15. Mar 14, 2006 #15 of 180
    MickeS

    MickeS Active Member

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    Yes it is. But people accept that because it's a computer.

    And even monthly, without a sub, it will probably cost more than $20/month. Let's say a computer, completely unchanged hardware wise except maybe HD upgrades, last for 4 years. That's easily $25/month right there. BUT they own it, can sell it (not for much, but still) or give it away, or use as a backup or for the kid or... whatever they want. It used to be that way with TiVo too... but alas, no more.
     
  16. Mar 14, 2006 #16 of 180
    dgh

    dgh New Member

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    Yeah, my father is using a hand me down (er up) PC that I originally built for myself in 1995. It was my mother's PC for about 6 years in between but she's since upgraded to my next hand me up. Since they are non-techy, have poor eyesight and don't enjoy reading manuals, they like computers that are well-tested and do things like they've been done for years.
     
  17. Mar 14, 2006 #17 of 180
    Atomike

    Atomike New Member

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    The price difference is less and less a problem. As has been said, some people are now using their "old" computers to make their own DVR - which in essence, costs nothing. 3 years from now, when everyone has a newer computer, their old machines will be more than capable of ANY dvr functions. As technology increases, the idea of a monthly $13 for Tivo service will look laughable to nearly all consumers. Now, without the possibility of a lifetime service, Tivo has effectively proven their complete inability to gague future technology needs/wants of consumers. Microsoft, however, has done the opposite. Let's see which one is around in 3 years.
     
  18. Mar 14, 2006 #18 of 180
    MikeMar

    MikeMar Go Pats

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    Majority of the population will not be able to run their own DVR computer, and even if they are, if something minor happens, they will not know how to fix it.

    TiVo is the simpliar solution, and majority of people either want a Tivo or a cable DVR at the very least.

    And then you still have the issue of people not wanting a computer in their living room.
     
  19. Mar 14, 2006 #19 of 180
    dgh

    dgh New Member

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    My Mom (who is 72) called me a couple of weeks ago because her "new" PC locked up. I reminded her about the reset button and all was well. She had forgotten about it because in 2 years of use on Windows XP, this was her first real problem. The old Windows 95 machine (now dad's) used to require resets once every month or so - enough to keep her familiar with the button. In case of massive failure, she backs up to an external USB drive but she's never had to use that. Companies depending in the fallibility of PCs to sell dedicated hardware are having less and less of a sales point as MS gets its act together.
     
  20. Mar 14, 2006 #20 of 180
    frayedend

    frayedend New Member

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    I don't think it can really be put in those terms. What you can do is say that I paid 50 dollars extra for the tv tuner. Now if I wanted a basic tivo without the subscription (do they still sell them?) it would cost about 300-400 bucks (last time I looked. Windows media center edition was standard, the 160 GB hard drive I was getting anyhow, the dvd burner was something I wanted anyway. Basically I was getting a new computer. I had no idea about tv tuners in the computer until I started looking. I had no idea how much the computer was capable of (compared to tivo) until I actually started using Media Center. I assumed that I would have to just set a record time and channel. I was extremely happy when I realized I would have a guide (no cable box for the computer) and that I could get the equivilant of "season pass". In the long run Tivo would be cheaper, but doesn't come with a computer. I think the reality is that anyone that would even consider tivo most likely is tech savvy enough to have a computer. And these days, computers are disposable. Really, I paid less than $1000 for a 160GB HD, 1GB memory, dual dvd drives (one rom, on dvd rw), media center, tv tuner, 2 speakers with subwoofer, 19" Digital Flat Panel display). Can't be beat. They always try to sell you an extra warranty, but for what, next year I'll want something better anyhow.

    Anyhow, like I said, I need Tivo now because of my tv location. But I am uncertain of their future. I could easily see setting up my computer, running s-video and audio cables to my tv (possible to do this now) and perhaps having a networked remote control receiver in the tv room to my computer. The networked remote and s-video (or some other connection) and audio to my tv would be all it would take for me to dump the tivo (after my year is up and my rebate is good). Realistically speaking the only thing stopping me from doing this now is running cables from one floor to another.

    Like said in previous posts, I think that Tivo needs to really think about additional features if they expect to stay viable for very long. I like my Tivo, but I am definitely the type to look at price vs benefit.
     

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