So much for cloud dvr and iptv.

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by schatham, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. Jan 4, 2018 #1 of 25

    schatham Well-Known Member

    Mar 17, 2007
    Here I am with no internet or cable tv because of this east coast storm. Good thing I have a Hard drive Tivo. All the new modern cloud based systems would be out of action. At least I can watch some shows.
  2. Jan 4, 2018 #2 of 25

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2015
    True. Hope your power doesn't go out (for reasons far more important than TV watching). Stay warm! (And connect that OTA antenna if you have one handy.)
  3. Jan 4, 2018 #3 of 25

    TonyD79 Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    Columbia, MD
    My internet was out for a couple hours today. TV worked fine. So I could watch and record. IPTV is going to be a rude awakening for many.
  4. Jan 4, 2018 #4 of 25

    tenthplanet Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2004
    Definitely, no matter what or how you watch, it will go out on you sooner or later. Been there.
  5. Jan 5, 2018 #5 of 25

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

    Mar 14, 2010
    absolutely absolutely agree tenthplanet. I would say that BluRay / 4K players and physical media still have their place in the uncertain world of accessing entertainment originating from a remote location as in cable satellite or streaming services, but it seems the internet has far more hiccups then my satellite or OTA. thankfully I still have some Blu-rays I haven't viewed yet, and would certainly be willing to view again other Blu-rays or DVD should I not have any entertainment coming into the house :). of course if electricity is out well there goes everything. Even a UPS will eventually run out of power.
  6. Jan 5, 2018 #6 of 25

    sangs Active Member

    Jan 1, 2003
    New Jersey
    To those people that ask me incredulously, "Why do you pay extra for more storage in your phone? Don't you know cloud/streaming?" THIS.
  7. Jan 5, 2018 #7 of 25

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    I see no reason that cloud/remote storage and local storage should not co-exist. I use both on a fairly regular bases for both music and video. My guess is so do most people.

    I understand that "on demand" options have made remote storage much more appealing but I think access to remote storage would have to become significantly more reliable (while remaining or becoming more affordable) before I would be willing to give up on local storage completely.
    tenthplanet and foghorn2 like this.
  8. Jan 5, 2018 #8 of 25

    duncan7 Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    My Roamio rebooted unexpectedly during the Rose Bowl. OTA antenna hooked to my TV (would have) worked fine.
  9. Jan 5, 2018 #9 of 25

    Daviator00 Member

    Dec 4, 2017
    I was in the storm's path as well and still found my smart TV's stream apps to be more reliable than my new Tivo Bolt which showed the spinning blue wheels when trying to play a recorded program.
  10. emuman100

    emuman100 Member

    Jul 3, 2003
    That's because the Bolt and Roamio software is a smelly, rotten, and nasty pile of garbage.
  11. schatham

    schatham Well-Known Member

    Mar 17, 2007
    You did not lose your internet, so not a true comparison. By the way if you lost internet your Tivo would have worked. The blue spinning balls are because of Tivo trying to get data.
  12. TonyD79

    TonyD79 Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    Columbia, MD
    Many people do not have any type of antenna any more. They rely on cable. Either because of difficulty, expense or living situation (hard to have solid OTA in apartments).
  13. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2015
    Over the years, I've found the reliability of my home internet connection and Netflix to be very high, greater than the reliability of either DirecTV or DISH satellite TV, both of which suffered from rain fade and total outages any time it rained. AT&T Uverse TV, of course, was just as reliable as their home internet. It's been so many years since I had QAM cable TV that I don't remember how reliable it was (although I know it was more reliable for me than satellite).
  14. tomhorsley

    tomhorsley Well-Known Member

    Jul 22, 2010
    Ah, but what you don't realize is that your NCIS recordings have been using the meltdown and spectre hacks for years to extract private data from your tivo. That's why you need the cloud - so losing your data is some else's fault :).
  15. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    Agreed, we lost cable for 3 days when we had a winter storm here a month ago, was able to clean off a lot of shows on the Tivo that had piled up from the fall.

    TV is going to suck when Comcast finally ditches Cablecard, don't care how many IPTV options there are. Older shows won't be a problem but sports and current season stuff? Get ready for unskippable commercials and crappy playback controls. And that's assuming you'll even be able to chase-watch live games like you can do now.
  16. avaddict

    avaddict Member

    Nov 23, 2014
    Wow! You may have nailed it (what the future will look like). The providers get the control back when users access this content via Cloud. It will be like using YouTube for the rest of your life. Comcast and these IP-based TV service providers should start planning now for $3500/yr less revenue from me if this is the future of TV. (two homes in different regions)
  17. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2015
    This idea of "cloud DVRs" -- whether they let you skip ads or not -- is just a modern version of technology going back to the advent of the DVR in 1999 and the VCR before that in the 1970s. It's the ghost of TV past, not TV future. Where we're heading won't have "channels," just apps/services/brands that deliver the content you want to watch when you want to watch it. For most stuff, that will be on-demand. For stuff that's actually happening right now, like sports and breaking news, that will be delivered live. Some content will be ad-free and it will cost you more. Some content will contain unskippable ads and therefore cost less.

    But this nonsense situation where viewers must set up and later delete "recordings" to capture "live" content from "channels" so that they can play it back later, but must FF through the ads in that content in order to avoid watching them -- yeah, that's so very 2000. It just doesn't make sense now from either a technology or business perspective. It's a part of the old "TV 2.0" regime. The new "TV 3.0" regime -- powered by Netflix, Disney/Hulu, Google, Apple, etc. -- will fully replace it at some point in the 2020s.
    mschnebly likes this.
  18. avaddict

    avaddict Member

    Nov 23, 2014
    Cool post and ideas! I get what you mean about apps vs channels (i think). Are you also saying that the content from the producers we know now as broadcast TV will not insert commercials in the future? That most everything will be streaming without ads because we have to pay for all the content, up front, the way we do with Netflix?
  19. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2001
    Except AFAIK none of those let you watch _faster than realtime_.

    I know it's an edge case, but I listen to all podcasts at 2x.. and I currently use QuickMode for somewhat of a speedup, but still use VLC (nowadays on AppleTV, used to watch directly on iPad more often with VLC) for 1.5-2x for some other things.. virtually all non-scripted stuff like documentary or reality show.. (I do nowadays watch SNL in quick mode instead of FFing through extra boring parts)

    I think 'regular' youtube has a speedup option nowadays, but none of the "TV" services have it..

    and they definitely would need all commercial free versions.. Heck, I pay for Hulu without commercials, and even that FORCES on you ~10 second "so and so show is on NETWORK Wednesdays at 8:30". I know that sounds minor, and comparatively is, but it's still wasting my time.. I want to get to the !@#$ show.
  20. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

    May 2, 2015
    When you say "broadcast TV," I assume you mean the content that is now aired on the major networks owned by Disney (ABC), Comcast (NBC), CBS Corp. (CBS & CW) and Fox. But already, all of that content (except for most sports) is also streamed (same day or next day) on Hulu, CBS All Access or The CW app. Right now, in the case of Hulu and CBS All Access, you can pay less and have forced ads or pay a few dollars more to have the ads automatically removed (no need to even FF past them). The CW app, meanwhile, offers free content but with ads that can't be avoided (the same as other free video apps like Tubi and Sony Crackle).

    Offering it both ways seems like a smart way for content providers to maximize their potential subscriber base. Some folks want to pay less and don't mind ads so much. Others hate ads and are willing to pay extra to avoid them; that extra amount they pay to the provider makes up for the lost ad revenue.

    Will Hulu and CBS All Access continue to do it this way? Will the practice spread eventually to other services, like Netflix and HBO, that have always been only ad-free (and more expensive)? Who knows. I do think we have a whole generation or two of young people raised on YouTube, conditioned to the trade-off between free on-demand content and short ad breaks. And most seem fine with it. So I don't see any reason to believe that advertising won't continue to play a role in subsidizing the cost of at least some video entertainment well into the future.

    Yeah, there are definitely trick-play things you can do with video sitting on your own hard drive that you still can't typically do inside of streaming apps, such as 2x play, or slow-mo frame-by-frame play, etc. But, as you say, "edge case".

    I used to *hate* the fact that doing an instant replay (i.e. jumping back ~10 seconds in the video stream) was so much more cumbersome with streaming than with TiVo or other DVRs. It's something I do a lot because I often don't understand a bit of dialog and want to hear it again. With streaming, I'd have to press to go back (sometimes without any visual guidance in the picture), then I'd have to hit the play button to resume, then the stream would buffer before playing again. WAY inferior to just hitting the single instant replay button on a TiVo remote. But that experience has definitely gotten better over time. Recent Roku and Apple TV models (and other devices, probably) allow you, in most apps anyhow, to click a single button to jump back several seconds, with the video instantly resuming playback from there. On my Apple TV 4K, the process is usually as quick (maybe quicker) than on a hard-drive-based DVR.

    So I expect that other forms of trick play will eventually come to streaming too, assuming that enough folks want a given feature. Competing apps and device makers are always angling for an edge.

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