Should I upgrade my tivo bridge and gateway to MOCA 2.0, or won't matter?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by FrankTivo, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. FrankTivo

    FrankTivo New Member

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    Last year I posted about my setup: Is my house MoCa ready? Cutting cord w/ OTA
    I have internet only coming into a cable box outside my house thru a POE filter and then into a 4-way splitter. From the split, one goes to my gateway (SBG6700-AC Wi-Fi Modem MOCA 1.1), one goes to my old OTA Roamio (thru a Tivo Bridge - MOCA 1.1), and the other two go to two different TiVo mini's (MOCA 1.1).
    Lately we've been having slow internet issues. Prior to the current internet issues, Atlantic BB came out as a courtesy call because they were checking lines with seemingly poor connections. Once they got here, the guy decided it was something to do with how my Moca was set up and not something caused by their equipment/line. He implied I had it hooked up incorrectly and starting rearranging it which screwed everything up, so I had him put it back and at least works.
    Our gateway does seem to not be getting as good as signal as previous (two lights that used to be blue are now only green: send/receive): From the manual:
    Green: Non-bonded downstream channel is connected.
    Blue*: High-speed Internet connection with bonded downstream channels.
    I used to get blue, now they're green all the time. No change in any set up or equipment.
    So really, two questions: 1.) What would be causing this problem?; 2.) Would it help to upgrade the gateway to something that does MOCA 2.0 and possibly also the TiVo Bridge? We notice the problem mainly on computers receiving wifi from the gateway, not on the TiVos.
    Thanks for any help!
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    If your modem isn’t properly syncing, you probably want to focus on getting a stronger signal to it. Either try a 2-way splitter ahead of the 4-way (connecting the modem run and the 4-way to the 2-way’s outputs, capping the now unused output port on the 4-way) or maybe replace the 4-way with an Amphenol hybrid MoCA splitter, connecting the modem run to the low-loss output. (Note that the Amphenol hybrid splitter has a built-in MoCA filter, so the separate MoCA filter at the PoE could be removed.)
     
  3. FrankTivo

    FrankTivo New Member

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    Interesting... Ok, so I get this (AMPHENOL IPGH3M4-VF Infinity Premise Docsis Passive 3 x HYBRID + 4 x MoCA Ports Splitter) and remove my existing PoE filter completely, hook the modem to hybrid port 1 and the OTA to hybrid port 2, and 1 mini to hybrid port 3 and 1 mini to one of the moca ports, and cap the remaining 3 moca ports with these (
    Ancable Coax F Type Terminators Caps with 75 Ohm Resistor for Unused F Connector Port)?
    It's been awhile since I looked, but I see the splitter has a ground terminal on it - what's it supposed to be connected to? I don't recall any ground wires in the box. And thanks!!!

     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Entirely correct, yes. (Of course, also connecting the incoming cable line, sans MoCA filter, to the Amphenol’s input port. Also, since only the modem line requires the cable signal and the other 3 lines need MoCA only, the other 3 lines could be connected to any of the other ports — or all 3 to the MoCA-only ports.)

    That said, a spare 2-way splitter in-hand would allow you to test whether splitting the signal off to the modem will work (i.e. be enough to resolve your modem sync issues), before ordering the Amphenol.

    Your cable provider should have ensured that a ground block was in place in the junction box, and connected to a grounding wire.
     
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    p.s. possibly some useful info in this parallel thread:

    Connecting; MoCA
     
  6. FrankTivo

    FrankTivo New Member

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    Thank you so much! Yes, I'd already found that thread and did learn a lot (hence my question about grounds!) :eek:)
    I don't think I've ever found someone on a forum who is so knowledgeable, patient, kind and available. You are really to be commended. I've seen how much others on this forum look up to you. Thanks again! I'll let you know how it goes after the parts get here. And if I can ask one more question, if this helps "a little bit", would upgrading either/both the tivo bridge and gateway to moca 2.0 help anything, or would I also need to upgrade the minis? And I'm guessing it would only help Tivo itself, and not our internet/wifi, but not sure?
     
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  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yeah, I realized after posting that I hadn’t answered that question directly, but figured I’d let it slide in case it wasn’t noticed. :)

    But to answer... your modem sync issue is likely just a matter of insufficient cable signal reaching the modem, not directly related to MoCA (i.e. perhaps the current layout of your coax plant to support MoCA connectivity, but not due to the MoCA signals, themselves); upgrading to a later MoCA spec wouldn’t change that.

    Even if the modem performance were due to interference from MoCA, simply upgrading the MoCA gear wouldn’t resolve the issue; you’d be looking at the options posted in the linked thread associated with DOCSIS 3.1 and MoCA interference. That said, you have a gateway with built-in MoCA bridging, so MoCA interference wouldn’t be the problem, unless the modem is actually malfunctioning. (Interference is a problem with some pre-MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1 modems/gateways.)

    As for any benefits from upgrading your MoCA gear... If/when you ponder a MoCA upgrade to improve your LAN speeds, it would have zero benefit for your current TiVo gear ..: with the older Mini’s (A92/A93) limited to MoCA 1.1 or Fast Ethernet, and the Roamio OTA limited by its Fast Ethernet port. From a value standpoint, any such upgrade would need to be for the benefit of other hardware that could use a wired network connection (e.g. streaming boxes, gaming consoles, PCs, wireless access points or mesh satellites, etc.).

    p.s. FYI/e.g. ... The TiVo Bridge is standard MoCA 2.0 (up to 400 Mbps), but its current connections to other MoCA nodes on your LAN would all be at just MoCA 1.1 (up to 170 Mbps), since the link between any two MoCA nodes is limited by the highest spec supported by *both* nodes. Upgrading your gateway to a model that supports MoCA 2.0 or better would bump the throughput between the TiVo Bridge and gateway up to 400 Mbps, but the Roamio OTA still couldn’t be faster than the 100 Mbps of its Fast Ethernet port. If you used a Gigabit switch at the TiVo Bridge to connect multiple devices, a device such as a gaming console might benefit from the improved throughput; and some leverage MoCA to improve the backhaul throughput between wireless access points or mesh satellites and the main router.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Please do, both to benefit my own sleep pattern and the research of some future traveler.
     
  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Didn’t want this comment to be lost in the noise of all my other blathering...
    The Amphenol hybrid splitter won’t be of any help if a 2-way splitter, as a test, doesn’t get your modem signals to an acceptable, working level.

    p.s. And if you can get the 4-way connected-up to this 2-way, as well — assuming modem sync has improved — you’d be able to document current modem (e.g.) and MoCA (e.g.) signal levels for evaluation, and comparison against any future changes. Or you may find everything looks good, and no further parts/changes are needed.
     
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  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Are you sure that this is your gateway, and not the SBG6782-AC (w/ "MoCA 1.1 access point")? The 6700 doesn't appear to have any built-in MoCA functionality, at least based on its user guide; and your prior thread also points to the 6782 as the intended target of your $$$:

    Regarding modem performance, though I still suspect it's a signal level issue, you may also want to confirm with your provider whether you'd benefit from upgrading the modem/gateway to one best suited for the Internet service level to which you're subscribed, perhaps to a DOCSIS 3.1-compatible model. (e.g. Comcast, Spectrum, ???)
     
  11. FrankTivo

    FrankTivo New Member

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    I think it is the 6782-AC. I must have copied the wrong link. Unfortunately I don't have a 2-way laying around or I'd try it. The Amphenol's only $7, so no great loss if it doesn't improve things. I'll do it this weekend. Thanks again!
     
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  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Probably should have suggested this sooner, but given that signal strength is the suspected culprit, you’d want to check/document the gateway’s current stats, to both evaluate current performance and for comparison after changes to the setup.

    See: General FAQs: SBG6782 (v8.4.x): Cable Signal Levels
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    If you have a barrel connector or simple ground block, a direct connect of the incoming cable signal to the gateway (bypassing the 4-way and temporarily killing the MoCA network) would allow you to see the best possible (current) signal strength at the gateway. Similar to the 2-way suggestion, if the modem isn’t syncing (bonding) with a direct connection, the Amphenol won’t help. (But get a signal reading whatever the result.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  14. FrankTivo

    FrankTivo New Member

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    Will do! Been travelling, so actually won't get to try it till next weekend, but I'll try to follow your suggestions. Thanks again!
     
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