Setting Up Moca LAN with BOLT (OTA)

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by John Nokomis, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. John Nokomis

    John Nokomis Member

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    May 25, 2018
    As I await my Bolt (OTA), I am looking for any suggestions that might help the next installation. Recently, I purchased the bolt for $219.99 and the lifetime for this device at $179. I am cancelling my monthly $14.99 monthly plan on my Series 5 (Tarvos) Roamio which is currently connected to a Frontier(Verizon) Fios gateway router G1100. I am also cancelling Frontier ISP service 100/100 Mbps for $146 all tax incld for all channels with cable card- but that rate ends. and getting rid of the same commercials for the last 3+ years.(I kid you not but sorry for the digression). The ONT port for FIOS stays on my house if i choose to move back to them as an ISP and the Ethernet (to the ONT) in the wall be untouched for potential future use. I purchased equipment keeping in mind future switches.

    I am moving to Comcast Xfinity for internet monthly$70 for 250Mbps (1 yr contract and autopay).
    I have 4 minis - two purchased from TIVO -invoices says Mini 2 TV streaming Device (Leo3) TCDA 93000
    _ two from Amazon TDCA 93000 ( no reference to Leo3)

    I use the Moca to connect these. I'm not sure how the Moca is established by the gateway router (probable) or the Roamio 5.
    I will use my new Netgear CM1000 modem which is connected to Xfinitiy at this moment (and working although I could not get the Moca with the Actiontec ECB2500's MoCa adapters or the fancy moca splitter (Amphenol IPGH3M4-VF) the comcast guy gave me). I have a hunch my previous set up did not have the Roamio as a moca start but it was the Gateway Fios router.

    I have a TP-Link AC4000 Archer20 router (which has no coax but latest/greatest) connected and working to the modem. (the cost of the 2. bridges vrs the bolt made the bolt purchase easier)

    I also use on the current lan in the office an Actiontec 3000N router with radios on for extender and plug into into ethernet for connection to desktop and printer.

    On hand, I also have a Arris model 1682G which I was thinking of replacing actiontec router because it's 2.0, I think. But I have to figure out how to make it a slave but also use the radios for extender (don't care if seperate SSID's). and maybe the older actiontec can be used for the furtherest. It's difficult to open the router when it's downline.

    On hand also, an old D-Link dsl2750B

    So I want my moca to be very fast and wifi spread throughout. The comcast people assured me they a POE filter in input line.

    OK, sorry for excess verbiage, but that's my set up as I await my bolt arrival.

    OH yeah, my workman friend installed my bowtie antenna on my roof and off a 38 foot latter. One facing Tampa roughly 48 miles and Fort Meyers Fl roughly 48 miles, along with amplifier. The pointing will be addressed with the bolt.



     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  2. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    The Fios router/gateway has built-in MoCa.
    The Comcast may not, so you need a MoCa adapter (AKA Tivo Bridge) connected to coax/a LAN port.

    Your Roamio (if its a 6 tuner, cable only, model) has built-in MoCa.
    The Bolt OTA (4 tuner) does not have MoCa built-in. It would need a MoCa adapter.
     
  3. John Nokomis

    John Nokomis Member

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    May 25, 2018
    I thought the Bolt OTa has Moca built in, if not, then back to square 1. My roamio is 4 tuner and can do OTA. maybe the bridges are necessary and return the Bolt. I do have adapters but they are of the slow variety and I wasn't able to get it working.

    Wow, you are correct, it is not built in. ouch. ouch. 79.99 bridge - oh my . Thank you . regrouping, maybe keep roamio and figure something else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  4. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    I would return the Bolt (I consider it as trash) from the many complaints of failures here. [laptop drive used inside.]
    There are 2 models of the 4 tuner Roamio, Basic and OTA, Basic ( I have, and upgraded to 4TB) can be used for cable or OTA, albeit, no MoCa built-in.

    Only the 6 tuner models (cable only) Roamio and Bolt have built-in MoCa.
     
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  5. John Nokomis

    John Nokomis Member

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    May 25, 2018
    return it? or buy a bridge as well, what should I do?
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'm working on a reply, but my thoughts on existing Roamio vs BOLT OTA would be ... see if you can get a monthly subscription without an annual agreement at $15/mo or less for your existing 4-tuner Roamio, explaining that you're looking to upgrade to a BOLT but want to prove that your overall setup will work for OTA before making that financial commitment.

    It sounds like you'd benefit from getting an OTA setup working, and then make the DVR decision later ... assuming you're not locked-in by TiVo on a service agreement. So if possible, keep the existing Roamio short-term while you get the setup working, waiting, hopefully, for a sale on the BOLT OTA, All-In/Lifetime for a Roamio OTA, or release of the EDGE OTA.

    And, in the meantime, contemplating your need for mobile streaming and the best avenue for 4K content support; as well as how much storage you'd prefer on your DVR.

    6-tuner Roamios (Plus & Pro) and all BOLT models except the BOLT OTA include built-in MoCA bridging and connectivity, while all Minis have MoCA connectivity. (4-tuner Roamios and the BOLT OTA are MoCA-less.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  7. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    Return it. You can connect your current Roamio with either ethernet or MoCa adapter, and still have MoCa on your other devices. (MoCa is like an extension of your current network.)
    Because your Roamio is still in good condition? You can also call Tivo and see if you can get a discount for lifetime. You won't get a discount online.
     
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  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Don't start panicking again. It's solvable, but do keep in mind that increased performance may well require an increased budget.

    As for MoCA adapter cost, WCB3000Ns can be had for $18 and bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters for $60 (see Motorola MM1000). Plus, though currently out-of-stock, the newest MoCA 2.5 adapters from goCoax were going for sub-$60.
     
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  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    These Minis have all been working with your previous "Roamio on FiOS" MoCA setup, correct? (i.e. Are already on your TiVo account, functioning, and have past MoCA connectivity at their current locations.)

    To be clear, all these are v2 Minis (A93000), and so are MoCA 1.1 spec, as is the WCB3000N extender. And, FWIW, the 4-tuner Roamio has a Fast Ethernet port while the BOLT OTA is Gigabit Ethernet.

    Good hunch. The G1100 has a built-in standard MoCA 2.0 bridge.

    Any reason you didn't just go with the TG1682G as your combo modem/router (gateway), and install/configure the Archer as a wireless access point, allowing use of the TG1682G's built-in MoCA bridging? (The TG1682G being only DOCSIS 3.0 may be limiting for your Xfinity speed tier.)

    Given the stated setup (i.e. a separate DOCSIS 3.1 modem and third-party router) and either a BOLT OTA or 4-tuner Roamio (both of which are MoCA-less), you'll need to install a standalone MoCA adapter at your modem/router location to function as your MoCA/Ethernet bridge (a function that was built-in to your FiOS G1100 gateway, as well as the unused TG1682G). What would seem to make the most sense would be to buy a new standalone MoCA 2.0 adapter for your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge and then use the G1100 in the Office as a replacement for the WCB3000N.

    So, yeah, though your Minis will only connect at MoCA 1.1, you'll be leaving some Internet bandwidth on the table via the Office (and perhaps elsewhere) if you don't upgrade your MoCA bridge and Office MoCA adapter to at least standard MoCA 2.0 (throughput up to 400 Mbps). Note that a bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter would communicate with the G1100 at just standard MoCA 2.0, but should achieve full bonded MoCA 2.0 throughput (up to 800 Mbps) with another bonded MoCA 2.0 node (if/when added).

    Were you to go with the above suggestion (new MoCA 2.0 bridge and G1100 in the Office), you could get a bit more bandwidth out of your coax lines by running two separate MoCA
    networks, per pg. 6 of the MoCA 2.0 specs doc:
    For example:
    • MoCA 1.1 for your TiVo boxes (using the WCB3000N as a simple MoCA 1.1 bridge at modem/router location)
    • MoCA 2.0 otherwise (new MoCA 2.0 bridge, G1100 in Office)
    But perhaps that's biting off a bit more than you'd like to chew this early on.


    So, yeah, you have some different options to getting MoCA working, depending on urgency and budget; however, I'd recommend just getting things working with minimal change, to start, and then make incremental upgrades as needed, and as you become more comfortable with the setup.

    That said, a limiting factor to getting going is that you haven't fully described where your devices are located, how the locations and devices interconnect, how the OTA signal will route to the DVR location, and especially how you're managing the migration between FiOS and Comcast as it relates to your coax lines. I've thrown together an outline of the devices that appear to be involved, but need you to fill in the details. (text works; diagrams, however rough, can be more productive)

    Locations ::

    Roof
    OTA Antenna ... routing to ... ??

    Junction Box ?

    "PoE" MoCA filter
    Amphenol hybrid MoCA splitter (which should've made the MoCA filter unnecessary)

    Room A
    (Amphenol port H1)
    Cable modem
    Router
    *NEW* bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter (though any spare MoCA adapter can be used, short-term, just to get up and running)

    Room B ? (Amphenol port H2)
    DVR (4-tuner Roamio or BOLT OTA)
    ECB2500C MoCA adapter

    Room C (Amphenol port M1)
    Mini

    Room D (Amphenol port M2)
    Mini

    Room E (Amphenol port M3)
    Mini

    Room F (Amphenol port M4)
    Mini

    Office (Amphenol port H3)
    WCB3000N (replaced by G1100 once FiOS is permanently shutdown)
    Desktop
    Printer​

    Each room (B-F & Office) need to be connected to the same coax plant as the new MoCA adapter installed at the modem/router location (Room A), but the DVR's OTA signal must route to the DVR without sharing a coax run with the cable TV/Internet signal, since OTA and cable operate in the same frequency range.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Of course, the simplest short-term solution is just getting your antenna connected to the 4-tuner Roamio, rather than the Roamio tuning FiOS TV, and keeping the Roamio and Minis on the FiOS MoCA network. That should at least allow you to get the OTA up and running on the Roamio, as a first step, with the next step being the latter portion of the above post, migrating to your Comcast Internet connection.
     
  11. John Nokomis

    John Nokomis Member

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    I will return the Bolt and later negotiate a lifetime service. I have had tivo and the $14.99 for 3 years. All thie mini's work fine over the current FIOS lan.

    The antenna coax goes directly to the Roamio and was working. The G1100 is being returned to Frontier FIOS. I will replace the wcb3000N in my bedroom office with the Arris 1682g (docsis 3.0)) as an extender and ethernet connection to desktop and printer.

    I need to buy a 2.5 moca adapter (out of stock) https://www.gocoax.com/buy-nowat least preferred.
    The modem, new router, the roamio are all in the same room. Connect the moca adapter to the TP-Link ac4000 Archer 20 router and connect the adapter to the Roamio's ethernet. ( the Router will only be connected to the Roamio by the adapter)

    I see no need to use the amphenol splitter as the network was working with FIOS and I have only one coax line going to the other rooms.( but I could be wrong here). There was (is) a coax line and a ethernet line going to the G1100 gateway and one ethernet line going out to the Roamio.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  12. John Nokomis

    John Nokomis Member

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    it appears the Moca 2.5 adapters are hard to get individually. I might have to settle for the 2.0.

    Any suggestions of preferred 2.0's Amazon.com: moca 2.5 adapter: Electronics

    and why would I need more than 1?

    I guess if I wanted my desktop to be even faster than the Arris 1682g would provide, i could feasibly put another adapter at that point of entry, side by side with the Arris acting as an extender. But I don't think that difference in speed for one pc make a second adapter necessary unless it will provide a more consistent link.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yeah, there was a brief burst of availability, but they've been out-of-stock for a month; and they've gone silent in the SNBforums thread on the subject. Which is a bit of why I was suggesting just getting things working on MoCA 1.1, short-term, to see if goCoax could replenish their supplies.
     
  14. John Nokomis

    John Nokomis Member

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    Quote >>Any reason you didn't just go with the TG1682G as your combo modem/router (gateway), and install/configure the Archer as a wireless access point, allowing use of the TG1682G's built-in MoCA bridging? (The TG1682G being only DOCSIS 3.0 may be limiting for your Xfinity speed tier.)

    I wanted the best router to feed the house. It was then I realized the TP- Link archer 20 didn't have a coax port and wouldn't act as an adapter.
     
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  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'm not sure what you're saying Re: the MoCA adapter connections, here, but you'll find that there's only one Ethernet port on the MoCA adapter, and it needs to be connected to your router's Ethernet LAN. (All you're doing is using a standalone MoCA adapter, along with the modem and router, to replicate the functionality that was built-in to the G1100.)

    The Roamio, like with the FiOS setup, would also need to be connected via Ethernet to the router LAN. (If the WCB3000N were used as the main MoCA bridge, rather than a new MoCA 2.0 adapter, its two Ethernet ports *would* allow the Ethernet connections suggested, one to the router and one to the Roamio.)

    As for the main, bridging MoCA adapter's coax connection, if you go with any bonded MoCA 2.0+ adapter it'll have an RF pass-through port, allowing you to connect the modem via the pass-through port and avoid the use of a splitter. A side benefit is that connecting the modem via the MoCA adapter's RF pass-through port is that MoCA signals don't pass through this port and so the modem is protected from MoCA signals, helpful for modems sensitive to MoCA.


    Do you only have the one coax run from the central junction to Bedroom 1, where the modem is located? (Just researching whether the modem's connection can be direct, isolated from the MoCA network, or if the MoCA network will need to share the modem's coax run. Why this is beginning to matter is that DOCSIS 3.1 and MoCA have overlapping frequencies, so there have been instances where they conflict, causing modem & MoCA connectivity issues. You'll likely be OK with a shared run, but a dedicated modem connection is ideal.)


    (more to come)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  16. John Nokomis

    John Nokomis Member

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    and thank you for inquiring with @Coax guy/gal. I'll wait a little bit to see if there's response.
     
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Motorola MM1000
    Though I think you'd still benefit from just going MoCA 1.1, short-term, via an additional WCB3000N at the modem/router, for just $18, then upgrade to MoCA 2.0 or 2.5 as a separate project. Just a suggestion.

    See here for a number of MoCA adapter alternatives. (And here for info on disabling wireless in the WCB3000N.)

    MoCA is peer-to-peer, and any 2 nodes will attempt to communicate with each other at the highest MoCA spec supported by both nodes. So, you'd need additional like MoCA adapters/nodes for any location(s) where you want the throughput benefit offered by the higher MoCA spec.

    For example, a pair of bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters can communicate at up to 800 Mbps, but a MM1000 (bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter) would only communicate at 150 Mbps with the WCB3000n (MoCA 1.1) and at 400 Mbps with the TG1682G (standard MoCA 2.0).
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  18. John Nokomis

    John Nokomis Member

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    Yes, there is only one coax feeding the house from bedroom 1.
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Then I'd go with the recommendation to connect the modem via the MoCA adapter's pass-through port. (An ECB2500C would work, short-term.)

    However, short-term, if you have some other MoCA adapter that could get you going, and that MoCA adapter lacks a pass-through port:
    • you'd need a 2-way splitter (ideally MoCA 2.0-compatible) to connect both the modem and MoCA adapter to the coax wall outlet;

    • and you may need a separate MoCA filter installed on the modem's coax input port *IF* the modem's Internet connection becomes unstable once the MoCA network is active. (The Netgear CM1000, being DOCSIS 3.1, may be sensitive to MoCA signals.)


    edit: p.s. Note that each MM1000 includes a MoCA filter in the box.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Oh, a quick note Re: your DOCSIS 3.1 modem.

    It would be worthwhile, before MoCA is brought online, to (1) check your Internet connection speeds via a wired speedtest to confirm you're receiving what you're paying for; and (2) get into the modem's configuration UI to check/document the frequencies used for the downstream/upstream Internet connection, to verify that your Comcast region isn't yet using the extended DOCSIS 3.1 frequency range, which overlaps with MoCA and would complicate MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1 sharing a coax run.
     

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