Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by BigJimOutlaw, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    It's recommended to terminate the unused port. (Noting that it wasn't so much of a concern to me, apparently, that I didn't highlight it blue, like the MoCA filter needed on the tuning adapter.)


    Some are, some aren't. Right now that "3-way" is merely a placeholder, as we don't know *what* is connecting those rooms together. They'll definitely have to make a choice between the cable modem and the BOLT, though most recommendations I've seen are to split the signal to the modem, first. They'll have to see what works for them.
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Concur, with the caveat that you should look to upgrade all your splitters to MoCA-compatible splitters, when you can if doing MoCA 1.1, and as soon as possible or immediately if you're looking to get a MoCA 2.0 adapter. You'll likely be able to establish a connection and communicate with the 1GHz splitters, but you can bank on MoCA 2.0 bandwidth being hampered by 1GHz splitters.


    edit: p.s. see this coincidentally-timed post for some more detail: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10733797
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  3. dscl

    dscl New Member

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    Thanks again everyone!

    I can only see one splitter but see we are talking it only makes sense that there has to be more to get to the other rooms, will take a walk around the house tonight to confirm how everything is connected.

    As far as my router it's a tp link archer c7 and it has a integrated gigabit switch so I should be ok on that end.
     
  4. rdlm

    rdlm Member

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    Apr 6, 2003
    I see one post related to this that's over a year old, but it doesn't quite answer my question. Hopefully I didn't miss anything in this very long thread!

    I'm replacing a Premiere that died, with a Bolt. I want to add a couple Minis while I'm at it. I do NOT have wired Ethernet through my home, and it's not practical to have a hard-wired Ethernet cable from my router to my Bolt. But I do have a WiFi N network, including a WiFi bridge in the cabinet where the Bolt will go. This WiFi bridge was used by my Premiere (and other devices), and worked fine for Netflix streaming, etc.

    The MoCA setup instructions state that the Bolt must be connected via a wired network, and not WiFi. In several places, it says you must connect the Ethernet cable between the Tivo and your router. Are they over-stating the requirement? Is the requirement that you must use the RJ45 Ethernet jack, and not the built-in Wifi? Or is the requirement that the RH45 Ethernet jack must really be directly wired to the router?

    Specifically, can I use my WiFi bridge for network connectivity, and then string a Cat5e cable to the RJ45 port on the Bolt and be all set with my MoCA network? Or do I really need to purchase a MoCA network adapter, and install that with a physical cable between my router and my bridge?

    Can I have:
    Cable -> Cable Modem -> Router -> WiFi N Network -> WiFi Bridge -> Cat5e -> Bolt
    Cable -> Mini

    Or do I need to by a MoCA network adapter and have:
    Cable -> Cable Modem -> Router -> MoCA network adapter
    Cable -> Bolt
    Cable -> Mini
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  5. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    Other, wiser heads will probably chime in here if I'm wrong, but my belief is that bridging Ethernet from router to Bolt using Wi-Fi in the middle is a non-starter. It doesn't work.

    Using a MoCA network adapter at the cable modem/router does work.

    If the Wi-Fi bridge arrangement were possible, I would think the TiVo folks would tout it. A lot of people like you would smile.

    However, nothing is stopping you from trying it, and if it doesn't work (as I predict it won't) going ahead and installing a MoCA adapter ...
     
  6. rcr2

    rcr2 It's you, not me.

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    Monmouth...
    One thing - is your router/cablemodem MoCa enabled? If so, you don't need ethernet on your Bolt (or Roamio) or Mini. It'll all connect through MoCa.
     
  7. BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

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    Since you have the wireless bridge already, try it. Using the ethernet port has successfully "fooled" the Tivo before.

    If it fails, you'll want a moca adapter.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Sadly, unless their text depiction isn't telling an accurate story, the anwer is no... since they're showing separate cable modem and router devices:
    You'd need to have, as your question implied, a combo modem/router gateway to be able to do MoCA, as the coax port would need to be connected to the LAN side of the router -- and standalone modems, where the only coax port would be in the separated config, only ever have the single Ethernet jack for making the WAN connection to the router.
     
  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Heh, strangely enough, you might have had better luck starting from the last post and working backwards (after reading this thread's OP, of course!), as another TCFer asked a nearly identical question, just yesterday.

    You can find yesterday's question, here: post #1305. The followup discussion runs from the above link down to post #1323, the post immediately before yours.

    I think you'll agree that it's a similar situation (nearly identical, really), so long as you substitute "Wireless-N adapter" for "POE adapter" (understanding the poster meant "Powerline adapter"). The concept is certainly the same... Create a MoCA network over which the TiVo devices can communicate with each other, but then use an alternative technology to bridge this isolated MoCA segment over to the router/LAN.

    And my responses would be similar, as well, substituting "wireless" wherever you see "Powerline," so I'll defer to what I said in the previous discussion until I hear something that requires special consideration.

    Give the last day's postings a read and let us know if you have any questions.

    Karl
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Note that what you're attempting isn't all that crazy, and though it may not currently be supported, officially, by TiVo, it was indicated by Ira Bahr, TiVo's CMO, during his "TCF Community Quick Chat" at the end of September (2015), that TiVo engineers are working on this very capability for the BOLT, itself, though no promises were made.

    See Ira's comment here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10651418
    The big question for me is how well such a solution would work once customers start taking advantage of the BOLT's 4K feature and start streaming 4K content over the weak link, but especially whether the link will hold if/when the Minis become 4K-capable Minis and you're trying to pull multiple 4K streams over a wireless or Powerline link. The heavy traffic would no longer be restricted to MRS communication between TiVo devices.

    As I stated in yesterday's discussion, I'd still recommend going all MoCA if the cabling's available or can be easily added; I view this bridging of a MoCA segment as the next best choice, if you can't go all MoCA.
     
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Strictly speaking, your wireless bridge solution would be more like the following, correct?
    • Cable -> Cable Modem -> Router (w WiFi N Network)
    • WiFi Bridge -> Ethernet(Cat5e) -> BOLT
    • Cable -> BOLT
    • Cable -> Mini
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  12. rdlm

    rdlm Member

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    Great info. Thank you. Sorry for missing the more recent post. The POE reference through me off, and I was largely looking for "bridging" in the discussion. Plus, that was 45 pages into reading the thread, and I was fading fast. :eek:

    As krkaufman points out, I have a separate cable modem and router, so a MoCA enabled cable modem wouldn't help me.

    Also, krkaufman correctly pointed out that my diagram was missing the Cable -> BOLT connection. That's definitely there.

    After reading the thread, I'm pretty convinced that my idea would work, though might have some limitations in the future with 4K (which I don't care about at this point). Ira's comments add weight to my thinking that with MoCA, while you need Internet for updates and schedule, a wifi link in the path should be fine.

    But based on the information, I'm actually thinking I may go MoCA 2.0 instead, which would require the Actiontec adapter anyways, and leverage that more broadly. Having not started the setup yet (I've bought the BOLT and need to install that this weekend, and adding the Minis will be Phase 2), are there any implications / complications with using the ActionTec adapter rather than the Tivo one?

    But now I need to go check the specs on the 3-way splitter that Comcast installed where the cable enters my house and see if it needs to be upgraded... along with adding a POE filter just before the splitter.
     
  13. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    I'm not sure which Actiontec MoCA adapter you are thinking of? Actiontec offers various models. I assume you mean one with MoCA 2.0. In general, there should be no unforeseen complications with not using the TiVo adapter. Note that in your setup, only the Bolt supports MoCA 2.0, not the Minis. The Minis will still communicate with the Bolt using MoCA 1.1.
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    A standalone adapter is my preference, owing to the advantage that MoCA-connected devices (e.g. Minis streaming Netflix) won't lose network and Internet connectivity whenever the DVR is rebooting, as they would if relying on the BOLT's built-in MoCA bridge, as an example.

    If you're saying "MoCA 2.0" and "Actiontec," you have two MoCA 2.0 models to choose from; see here.

    Note that the bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 adapter (ECB6200) would likely be preferable for those "more broadly" goals, but it's more than the standard MoCA 2.0 BOLT requires. Also, the SmallNetBuilder review of the ECB6200, available at the above link, indicates that Actiontec is looking into an issue where the throughput of the adapter deteriorates over time to nearly Fast Ethernet speeds, requiring a power cycle of the adapter.


    I'd suggest 3 phases... BOLT via built-in wireless, MoCA'fication, Minis.

    You'll want to get your BOLT up and running, recording, etc., and get a feel for it, so you can make the keep/kick decision before the TiVo 30-day "trial" window expires. (see here)
     
  15. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    Oops, that link to your earlier post contains a busted link to the product data sheet for the ECB6200 Bonded MoCA 2.0 Network Adapter, so here's a link to the Actiontec web page for that adapter:

    http://www.actiontec.com/339.html
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Thanks; updated. Actiontec's site didn't have the product pages in order at the time the OP was created; thanks for the heads-up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
  17. capecodtuc

    capecodtuc New Member

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    I have just purchased a new Bolt, which is working wirelessly right now. However, I would like to set up a MoCA network so I can use a mini in a bedroom, and to transfer programs more quickly. I decided to buy an Actiontec 2.0 MoCA adapter - the 6000, as there seems to be a problem with the 6200 slowing down. I'm trying to connect it and all I can find on the /tivo weebsite are directions for using the Actiontec 1 adapters. The version 2 adapter has only one Coax port and one ethernet port, so using the diagrams for the version 1 won't work. I tried to hook it up using the diagram that cam with the version 2, but it didn't work (It has me connect the cable wall drop via coax to the adapter and the adapter to the modem via ethernet cable. It assumes that I have a modem/router, which I do not.) I tried this hookup and found that I lost my internet and my phone line. (I have a telephony modem.)

    The setup that I have is:
     
  18. capecodtuc

    capecodtuc New Member

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    I accidentally posted the above. This is a continuation:

    My setup: cable wall drop via coax to telephony modem; modem to Airport Extreme via ethernet cable. Modem/router is in a different room than the Bolt. The only place where there is a ethernet connection is through the router. Cable is throughout the house, with splitters in some areas. I do have a POE filter at the house cable inlet.

    I called Tivo for help and the tech told me that they do not support using MoCA version 2 adapters and that I should return the one I have and get a version 1. I have read on this form and others that there are people who have the version 2 adapters successfully hooked up, but in searching the forums, I can't see how they did it. And I don't know if having a telephony modem muddies the waters.

    At any rate, can someone tell me how to hook this up?

    Thanks
    Nancy
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Nancy, you just need to use a 2-way MoCA-compatible splitter* to split that coax line currently running to your cable modem, such that one output of the splitter would connect to the modem and the other output would connect to your MoCA adapter. You would then connect the Ethernet port on the MoCA adapter to a LAN port on your router and you should be set. (Barring issues w/ other components on your coax lines.)

    Simple as this, I'd think...
    Code:
    Legend:  ]- COAX    >= Ethernet    | intra-device link
    
    
     [Wall Outlet]- Splitter (2-way) |1]- Cable Modem  "RF In"|"Ethernet">= Router "WAN" port
                                     |
                                     |
                                     |2]- MoCA adapter "RF In"|"Ethernet">= Router "LAN" port
    

    * p.s. Any 1GHz splitter may work to get you going, but you'll want to upgrade this splitter (and any others through which your MoCA signals will travel) to a MoCA-friendly 5-1675 MHz (or better) splitter.
     
  20. capecodtuc

    capecodtuc New Member

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    Nov 29, 2009
    Thanks Kr,

    Thats what I guessed might work, but wanted some verification. (didn't have time to test it out and was afraid of messing things up.) The splitters in the entry way that I can access all say 5-1000 mHz. (I have an empty bag that is labeled 5 to 2 GHz, so somewhere in the house there is one that is that bandwidth, but I don't know where it is.) The line to my modem is a continuous line from an initial splitter at the coax house drop to the modem outlet, so I know that there aren't any other splitters in the run. In the rest of the house, I have no idea what is in the wall, including what is running to the Tivo.

    How do I know if a splitter is 2-way? Are they labelled as such? Is a splitter that is rated up to 1675 okay or do I specifically need one that is labeled 2-way? ... or one that is labeled MoCa?

    Thanks again for your help.

    Nancy
     

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