Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by BigJimOutlaw, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. kook04

    kook04 New Member

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    Ugggg.... this is a nightmare. It seems like getting Tivo mini running using MoCA (even when I have the Roamio Plus, which removes some steps) is an absolute mountain to climb.

    1) I have Time Warner, so I have a Tuning Adapter, which adds to the headache

    2) There are multiple splitters in my house, some buried in ceilings, walls, etc... I have no idea if they are all sufficient or not. Even if I did know, it would possibly involve replacing each of these splitters.

    3) Depending on which one of the posts in this thread you read, you either need one, multiple, or possibly zero PoE filters.

    To clarify... I am a software engineer of 20 years. I'm not someone's 65 year old grandmother. And, I'm still overwhelmed. How the hell does Tivo expect to ever get those 65 year old grandmothers as customers?

    So, my question:

    It will be a bit of pain, but it's now looking like just running another Ethernet wire through my walls from my router to the Mini is probably the easiest thing to do. "Easiest" in the sense that it should work without any of the extensive troubleshooting that a MoCA setup may require. Does that sound right to you guys?
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    That's what I was trying to say, yes; correct.

    Good thing they're just working with DVRs and not trying rocket science.
     
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This isn't entirely accurate.

    It is recommended to get your splitters (and other coax infrastructure) upgraded to MoCA-rated/-compliant components, but many, many people are able to adequately support MoCA using 1GHz splitters. *IF* you try starting your MoCA engines and they sputter, then you'll definitely want to start taking a hard look at upgrading components.

    Regardless, you'll want to have an understanding of how your coax lines route in your house and where they connect to each other, to determine whether all the connections are made and whether any non-compliant components (non-MoCA amps) may be sitting between your MoCA device locations.
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Heh, yeah, that complicates things.

    If I might inquire, how is your tuning adapter connected to your coax lines, and your Roamio Plus, as well? Is the Plus connected to the tuning adapters "RF/TV Out" port, or are they each connected directly to your coax lines using a splitter?
     
  5. kook04

    kook04 New Member

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    Coax comes out of the wall into the Tuning Adapter, then out of the TA into the Roamio Plus. No splitter there.
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Heh, that could be part of your MoCA issue (you're having a MoCA issue, right).

    Try connecting your Roamio Plus and tuning adapter according to the following diagram...
    (click 'Show' to reveal diagram)
    [​IMG]
    ... but imagining that the MoCA adapter isn't there!!! (Instead, the coax line should run from the splitter output to the Plus' coax input, and the Plus' Ethernet port needs to be connected to one of your router's LAN ports, or simply to your home network.)


    edit: p.s. See also snerd's recommendation re: terminating the "RF Out" on the tuning adapter, from here:

    edit: p.p.s. See the following for additional details:
    'gist: TWC's tuning adapter installation instructions are MoCA-ignorant.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  7. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Well there's your problem.
     
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I see you have a thread already going re: your Mini connection. In which thread do you wish to continue the troubleshooting?

    (My recommendation is to post MoCA issues to this thread, since many TCFers are likely already subscribed to it and will receive notifications for new posts; new threads require browsing the forums to review what's on the plate.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    _You_ will want to get 2 MoCA filters installed:
    • 1 for your cable provider's point-of-entry (PoE) to your home;
    • 1 to put on the input to your tuning adapter;

      ...
    • *maybe* 1 add'l MoCA filter on your cable modem -- *IF* you begin experiencing modem/Internet connectivity issues after enabling MoCA, and if your modem doesn't already have a MoCA filter built-in. (h/t fcfc2)

    Neither is *required* to fire-up MoCA and see if your devices connect, but you will need to get them both in place for security, performance and reliability... for both your MoCA network and your tuning adapter.


    p.s. FYI...

    Here's some background on the "PoE" MoCA filter, from a previous thread...
    "Why?" ... See this TiVo link: https://www.tivo.com/assets/popups/popup_moca_poe.html

    "How?" ... See this PDF document from TiVo: https://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/mytivo/POE_Instructions_Web.pdf


    ... and here's the "what's up?" re: getting a MoCA filter placed on the input to your (properly split) tuning adapter:
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  10. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    Look on the bright side, since this is a hardware issue, you don't have to worry about inadvertently dereferencing a null pointer, and no virus or trojans to worry about ;)

    Sure, that would work too. One advantage of MoCA is that data streaming from the Roamio to the Mini remains confined to the coax so that it doesn't bog down the LAN. But with only the one Mini, you're not really in danger of overloading the LAN even if you have only older 10/100 Mbps equipment.

    You can still try out MoCA without swapping out any old crappy splitters and it might work fine. MoCA was designed to adapt to non-ideal coax. The real problem is the tuning adapter probably won't pass MoCA signals, so you'll need a 2-way splitter and a PoE filter for the tuning adapter, as krkaufman described.

    As an experiment, you could temporarily disconnect the tuning adapter and run the cable from the wall directly to the Roamio to see if the MoCA signals can get through whatever splitters you currently have in place. If that does work, then adding a 2-way splitter an PoE filter for the tuning adapter, plus a PoE filter at the input of the main splitter, will almost certainly work as well.
     
  11. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    lol!
     
  12. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    What he said! If it works, it works ...
     
  13. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    Hear, hear! First, you should do the practical stuff recommended in the earlier posts just to get MoCA working with the Mini. But then, second, you should attend to matters of "security, performance and reliability," all the while making sure at each new step that the basic MoCA capability of the Mini does not go poof ...
     
  14. abs16

    abs16 New Member

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    Nov 28, 2015
    Hi all. I'm trying to get a TiVo Mini connected to our Roamio Pro over MoCA, and having a hard time. I've got a Motorola cable modem, connected to an Apple AirPort Extreme, which handles DHCP & NAT for the network. The Roamio Pro is connected to the AirPort Extreme using ethernet, and is set up to be the MoCA bridge for the network. The TiVo Mini can connect to the Roamio over MoCA, and gets an IP address, but can't connect to the Internet. Additionally, I'm getting Double NAT errors on the AirPort Extreme, and can't connect to the Internet from any device on the network whenever the Mini connects to the Roamio over MoCA.

    Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
     
  15. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    A couple questions, is your cable modem a modem only or is it a Gateway type with wireless builtin? I never heard of a single router having double NAT issues.
    How did you setup your MoCA on the Roamio, with the "create a MoCA network" or "connect via MoCA".
     
  16. abs16

    abs16 New Member

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    Nov 28, 2015
    The modem is a basic Motorola Surfboard, with no wireless. I am using the Roamio to create the MoCA network. The network has been set up this way for a few years, with no issues.
     
  17. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like a router issue from your description. I am not an Apple guy, but I would reboot the modem and Airport Extreme. I would also try to set a fixed/static IP for all of the Tivo devices.
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Heh, I was going to ask if maybe they'd already done that and perhaps had accidentally assigned an IP address already in use, or misconfigured their IP settings.
     
  19. abs16

    abs16 New Member

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    Nov 28, 2015
    I've tried both static IPs and DHCP for both the Roamio and Mini. I did a bit of troubleshooting, and found that normally, my AirPort router has a public IP address for its WAN interface, and then hands out addresses on the 192.168.1.0/24 network for connected clients, including the Roamio. However, when I connect the Mini using MoCA, it receives the correct IP address, as configured in the DHCP reservations within the AirPort, but then the AirPort's WAN interface changes IP addresses to one on the 192.168.100.0/24 network, which appears to be used by the cable modem. I can't figure out if this is a cable modem issue or an AirPort issue.
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Wherever the problem lies, it's bizarre that it's only triggered by the Mini connecting. The Mini's Ethernet port isn't plugged in anywhere, is it?

    Are the Mini and Roamio your only MoCA devices?
     

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