Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by BigJimOutlaw, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    I hope someone finds those definitive posts so that I can become as convinced as you are. I followed your link (and another) to end up here and read posts. In particular, message #14 which includes the following:

    "After I repeated tests to make sure that the downstairs was still working fine and living with it for a couple of hours I then went back and plugged the ethernet into the back of the Roamio to feed the other devices in the AV cabinet. At this point, the network panel started saying that it was using "MoCA + ethernet" even though I hadn't told it to bridge. I'm hoping that doesn't mean it will start trying to take over the MoCa network, but all my testing showed that the MoCa to the downstairs is still working fine."

    If you read the entire thread, it sounds like setting "Connect using MoCA" while devices are connected to the ethernet port results in the TiVo automatically changing the connection to "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network" in order to bridge the signals. Unfortunately, I only have one TiVo with built-in MoCA bridging, so I can't do any experiments to verify any of this on my own.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    No, we're on the same page (I believe) and the post you quote, this one, confirms that the test setup did NOT use the "create" option:
    That the network status info automatically updates to reflect "Ethernet + MoCA" when something is connected to the otherwise-unused Ethernet port of a MoCA-connected TiVo reflects that the TiVo is now bridging traffic; it does not mean the TiVo has completely switched itself over to whatever mystery configuration is enabled when you select the "create" option (i.e. "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network").

    And how the poster phrased that statement tells me that they were under the same impression I used to be, that the "create" option was simply a paraphrased way of saying "enable MoCA bridging." There *must* be something more to it, since using the "create" option when connecting an isolated Ethernet device to the Ethernet port of a MoCA-connected TiVo DVR can kill the MoCA network, while doing so having selected the "connect" option does not.

    p.s. I'll give the whole thread a read, but the above is my interpretation of the cited posts, and how they mesh with this thread's recent posts. (Praise the lords, it's only 1 page/15 posts; it'll be much easier to get through than I was expecting.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This post (#3) confirms that in the OP's initial problematic setup they had used the "create" option -- and that they were under the same misguided impression I was that it just meant "enable bridging," and the TiVo would be smart enough to handle the rest, just like standalone MoCA adapters do.

    And as an aside, the following post from that thread echoes my experiences with the TiVo network configuration dialog, that it can be tricky and that you shouldn't assume that whatever changes you try to make will be smoothly applied. It can be a wrestling match, at times, in my brief experience.
    And this just seemed cruel...
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    p.s. I'd say that thread is pretty definitive on the issue, if not exactly concise.
     
  5. Random User 7

    Random User 7 Incognito

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    you've created a LAN
     
  6. f0gax

    f0gax Member

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    I'm going to apologize in advance for being "that guy", but this is a long thread with a lot of occurrences of the words I'd be searching on...

    I have FiOS with their router which is connected with coax.
    I have a 4-tuner Roamio with wired Ethernet to the router.

    If I wanted to add a Mini do I need a MoCA adapter? Or am I ready to go?

    Based on a scan of some of the replies I think I am, but I want to make sure.

    Thank you.
     
  7. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    True. But it doesn't connect to my router (except via my Bolt that has joined — but not created — a MoCA network).

    Also, I don't see why a MoCA network itself shouldn't be called a LAN.

    I am seeing much talk of bridges and bridging in the interesting discussions in the previous several posts. We know now, don't we all, that the TiVo acts as a bridge between MoCA and Ethernet if it, the TiVo, is set up to join a MoCA network? It doesn't have to create the MoCA network to be a bridge, but it will in fact serve as a bridge when it is set up to create the network. So there are two MoCA-related setup options that make it a bridge. Hence, using the "create" option does something more than just enabling bridging.

    What is that something? It seems to be to "kick off" the use of MoCA protocols on the coax network, just as the opening kickoff in a football game gets things going for the first time. MoCA protocols require that some MoCA device on the network always be acting as "network controller" (NC) so as to time-slice usage of the network to avoid collisions. TiVo boxes seem to equate the NC with the "MoCA co-ordinator."

    My experiments earlier in this thread showed that the "MoCA co-ordinator" function moves to another device if the present "MoCA co-ordinator" is powered off. This implies to me that the MoCA NC is not always one particular device, and hence it is not necessarily always the device that "creates" the network.

    My "MoCA co-ordinator" is actually a MoCA-enabled Wi-Fi network extender I got from Verizon. And my MoCA network was "created" by my Verizon MoCA-enabled router. My Bolt simply joined that network, and yet it bridges from MoCA to an Ethernet switch for the benefit of my other entertainment toys.

    Here are my two questions. If I ditched my Verizon FiOS router and got one that's not intrinsically MoCA-friendly, and I ran an Ethernet cable from a coax-connected MoCA network adapter to that router, would that adapter automatically realize that it has to re-create my MoCA network? And if that's what it would do, then why doesn't the TiVo automatically do the same thing when it is told to join a MoCA network?
     
  8. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    I believe you have to use a MoCA network adapter with your basic Roamio if you add a Mini. The 4-tuner Roamio will "feed" the Mini over MoCA, but it doesn't have on-board MoCA support. That's why you need the adapter. Other posters may know a way around this requirement, but I do not.
     
  9. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    You are ready to go. No adapter required. Just pick the Moca connection method in the network settings on the Mini.

    The Roamio's existing ethernet connection to the router is all that's needed to "feed" the Mini. The Fios router is already the Moca bridge. I think the previous poster missed the Fios detail. If you didn't have Fios, you would indeed need a Moca adapter bridging your coax and ethernet LAN and creating the Moca network.
     
  10. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    You probably don't need a MoCA adapter. FiOS systems usually create a MoCA network. As long as you can make a wired Ethernet connection to the Roamio, you can add a Mini using either a wired connection to the eithernet port or by connecting it to coax and enabling MoCA on the Mini.
     
  11. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    Technically, if you have two or more devices that communicate via ethernet signals, then you have a LAN, and MoCA devices can be part of the LAN.

    If you ditched the FiOS router (or just disabled MoCA on the router) and added a MoCA adapter to create the network, then it should work pretty much the same.

    It seems like a TiVo with MoCA enabled might behave the same way as an external MoCA adapter. If you can figure out how to disable the FiOS MoCA, then you could do some more experiments.
     
  12. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    OK, I stand corrected. I now think this is correct, as is the previous post by sdavej. I did not originally realize that a Roamio-to-FiOS-router Ethernet connection would obviate the need for a MoCA adapter. Best of luck ...
     
  13. jmerr74

    jmerr74 Member

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    Pembroke...
    KrKaufman, thank you for your help; to continue in here...I looked at the access box in my house and the junction box outside my house. Now, I have two lines entering my house...when I moved in I had another cable line installed, into my living room because we did not have a cable line for a living room TV. That line was split off the main line from the junction box (outside) into my house, once it gets into my house there is a splitter one to my modem and the other to my TV.

    For the rest of the outlets in my house, a line leaves the junction box and goes directly into my access box (in my wife's closet, upstairs) which has an amplifier that they are all plugged into which in turn is plugged into a coax A/C adapter (if you unplug you will lose it all, I may be mistaken how the exact works, it may goto the adapter then into amplifier/splitter, just think of regular use). There is also an A/C plug in the box that I can plug something into if needed. I will also add, I cannot get into the outside box...

    NOW...my question is...what in the HECK do I do? I would seem to me, that the extra line I had installed would be its own little island while the rest of the outlets would work perfect? Or does it even matter if it was split off the main line? Do I just need one Netgear or Actiontech (set meaning two adapters) to get it to work? Please answer in layman's terms...I am getting a headache from all of it, I just want the easiest setup as possible. Or as I said I may just give powerline a whirl, I have A/V 2000's ready to use....or am I overthinking this? Should I just buy the damn things and get on with it?

    My issue is I had never heard of MOCA before and I am trying wrap my head around it, it doesn't make sense like Wi-Fi/LAN networks do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  14. nickels

    nickels opinionated dope

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    I am trying to figure this out, but the details are so confusing when it comes to specific components and what is needed.

    I have a Roamio - not plus or pro. It is hard wired my router via Ethernet.
    I have Fios. Just purchased a TiVo Mini, now the confusion starts.

    It sounds like I need at least one MoCA adapter to set up a MoCA network. Do I also need one before the TiVo Mini as well? I hope not, those adapters aren't cheap. Here is how I think I am supposed to set it up:

    Main room:
    Tivo Roamio->MoCA Adapter->Wall Coax

    Bedroom:
    Wall Coax->TiVo Mini
    or is it
    Wall Coax->Moca Adapter #2->TiVo Mini

    The other issue is that the wall coax in the main room is connected to the TiVo input. I guess I need to split that connection as well? And what is all this talk about Fios already being MoCA enabled? I'll go back and keep reading, but this is so confusing.

    This quote really confuses me:
     
  15. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    All you have to do is somehow connect your Roamio to your LAN. Then the rest of your coax network only needs one Moca adapter to create the network. You'll also need to remove your amp, you don't need it anymore and it may not pass the Moca signals.

    So what options do you have for connecting your Roamio to your LAN? Can you run an ethernet cable to your router or would you prefer Moca? If Moca, then you'll need a second Moca adapter and you'll need to connect the coax from your Roamio to the rest of your coax network via a splitter outside.
     
  16. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    You don't need any Moca adapters at all in your case. Your Fios router is already the one and only Moca adapter that you'd need. All your Minis will connect directly to the coax from the wall.

    You don't have to change any wiring. Just plug in the Minis and you're done.
     
  17. Random User 7

    Random User 7 Incognito

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    Fios tv uses MoCa to get the signal to the boxes. For users that are internet only from Fios they may or may not have MoCa.
     
  18. nickels

    nickels opinionated dope

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    NO ADAPTER NEEDED?!?!?! Best news ever!!!! I will hook up the Mini to the coax and see if it works. I'll be amazed if it does :)

    *I have Fios triple play, not internet only.
     
  19. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, you also have to pick Moca in the network settings on the Mini.
     
  20. epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    snerd, I missed that you had responded. Sorry. I think you're probably right about a MoCA adapter, if I had one, duplicating what the MoCA on the FiOS router now does. And possibly if I disabled MoCA on the router, my Bolt, if told to create a MoCA network, would do the same thing. I don't know whether I even can disable MoCA on the router. I'll have to check. If I could do that, I would have to run a long Ethernet cable from the Ethernet switch near my Bolt to the router in another room. I have such a cable, so I may try some experiments later ... Thanks for your input.
     

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