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Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by Marduk, Aug 1, 2007.
+1 and add in the ability to transfer MPEG home videos from my computer to my S3.
Hmmm... maybe there's a correlation between the lack of forum participation and the increased productivity...
I have noticed that on my end as well
I have a friend who works for TiVo in Alviso (on firmware for the dread advertising support features ). He tells me that they're all encouraged to read these forums, but are forbidden to post unless specifically requested by management (sometimes people ask technical questions here and an engineer might be called on to compose an answer). Bob "TiVoPony" Poniatowski, who posts here most often, is marketing director and bears a large portion of responsibility for determining what information gets released to the public about the products--he's not going to inadvertently leak things in his posts that give away new stuff that they're working on that they haven't committed to releasing yet.
Hopefully by the time that we hear that they're going to support something new they know for sure that they're going to do it and exactly what functionality they can deliver.
I've had a couple of conversations with TiVo about this at CES and since then, and the basic issue is user confusion.
TiVo likes to keep things simple. And if possible they want to get approval to flip the switch and have it just work both ways for all content. They're concerned about having features that work for just some content, or just some one way and some the other way, etc. Partly just for user confusion, but also because of the associated support issues when people call in because they don't understand why they can't move Show B when they can move Show A, or why they can move things to the box but not from the box, etc.
TiVo did say that if it comes down to it, they would probably enable it this way rather than keep it all disabled. But they were working towards being able to enable it broadly as the primary goal, with the partial functionality only as a Plan B.
It sounds like they're going to be able to enable in broadly.
They can avoid that problem by displaying a dialog box that says you can't move this show because the content provider chose to restrict movement. Call your cable company and complain. Channel #xyz, recorded August 1st, 2007 10pm, Sopranos.
People still call about it - they do it now with any content that gets flagged for not copying.
TiVo's general user base is really not very tech savvy.
Plus that message would not be accurate in this case, as it is CableLabs and not the local cable provider.
TiVo just doesn't feel it is worth the confusion and headache to roll it out half-assed when they feel they can bring it to market in full given a little time.
I can agree some people will call anyway, but don't agree CableLabs is responsible. They spec'd the mechanism to implement copy protection, but they don't choose to enable it. That is the choice of the content provider and the cable company is your interface to the content provider because they are selling you the product.
Two different issues. CableLabs didn't allow content to be moved off a CableCARD box *at all* - no MRV or TTG, period. It doesn't matter how the content is flagged - even open content with no copy restrictions was forbidden from being moved. CableCARD introduces restrictions above and beyond what exists without it. Even using external storage like eSATA was forbidden completely.
CableLabs has been softening that stance - external storage and moving content is now permitted with certain restrictions. TiVo is working with them to make sure TiVoGuard (the protection system TiVo uses on TTG) satisfies the restrictions, etc.
CableLABs never actually had authority to determine rules for moving content around--that was already (somewhat) defined by the DFAST license. They do, however, have the power to deny certification to any device that they don't like, placing arbritrary restrictions on design. That power needs to be controlled by the FCC; hopefully they're already moving to do that.
I thought that there was a provision for independent CableCARD certification? Maybe I'm thinking of HDMI (interoperability of which is a joke).
I'd heard that TiVo neglected to submit documentation of T2G and MRV to CableLABs. Obviously there are some concerns with them; movement of content received in secure form via DFAST as marked "Copy One Generation" or "Copy Never" is restricted by rules in the DFAST license agreement.
I see restrictions for "Controlled Content" in DFAST, but there is no reference to restrictions for CCI=0 and EMI=0 content. Where can I read about the restrictions you are saying exist for CCI=0 content?
and that is where Cable Labs is softening its stance to be in line with what you have quoted. That is also where TiVo can move forward now without fear of cable labs yanking them around on certification. Without certification from cablelabs then the cable company can refuse to let you use it with a cable card on their system. I think that would have lost a few more sales than lack of TTG/MRV would
Hello all, have been watching this and other threads for a while (since Series 3 came out).....very strong supporter of Tivo, have recommended, etc, and have 3 series 2 myself, all with upgraded HD's.
Anyhow, for me (and admittedly not for everyone), the MRV is a critical feature, and until Tivo can come out with a date, I will be waiting to purchase one. I know its not what 'everyone' wants, but IMHO, it definitely is one of the features that sets it apart from other DVR's. I've held off purchasing an HDTV for this reason as well, (didn't want to add the HD Tivo), but I'm breaking down on the TV and am just going to get a cable company box, seeing as how I can't transfer anyhow.
Per some of the posts about Tivo participation here.....would love to see some response, thanks for the quotes from the VP Marketing....but would like to see something posted officially in their FAQ's, web pages, 'coming soon' section, etc. Even without an actual date, as long as there is a firm commitment (again, posted officially somewhere) that they are working towards it I would but the HD Tivo tomorrow. Short of that, I'm recommending my friends don't bother and just go with a regular cable DVR.
I know my little post here isn't goign to change the world, but if anyone knows of any polls/emails/better way to contact Tivo and add my voice, let me know and I will.
Tivo would be foolish to officially announce such commitments since if for whatever reason they are unable to follow through with it that would make them look really bad. I think they do obviously realize the importance of these features which is why we actually have at least semi-official (unwritten) word from VP level that they are working on it and it will be coming soon. That alone would already make it pretty embarrassing if they can't deliver. Personally I was going to wait for MRV/TTG before buying my 2nd unit, but when I heard of the initial rumblings that MRV/TTG was coming coupled with the $200 father's day rebate that was enough to pull the trigger for me.