Series 3 Freeze-Reboot: What Should I Do?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by shfawaz, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    14,222
    2
    Jan 17, 2002
    Northern...

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    Breakthrough!

    It finally occurred to me that I most often had the lock up problem while the receiver and TV were turned off, where I'd get the lockup and black screen on power up. What tipped me off was the TiVo would lock-up immediately if I rebooted with the receiver and TV off!

    I moved the HDMI cable to plug directly to the TV and kept it powered up. No usual wee hours lock up! It's been up for 18 hours now. I'll see how long it lasts.

    I'm suspecting this lock-up problem is related to the HDCP handshake over HDMI.

    Are any of you having the problem NOT using HDMI to connect?

    For info it's a Onkyo HT-SR800 receiver (that doesn't support audio over HDMI, I use TOSlink) and a Sharp Aquos LC-32D62U LCD TV.

    (And to those who are thinking idiot!...I long ago tried pushing the buttons on the panel - no lights are on, no recordings happen- unplugging the HDMI cables, switching inputs and anything other than a power cycle with no luck. If it was merely not displaying explain why the S3 misses recordings every time while the To Do list always tells me "Not recorded because ...the power was off."

    It got to the point where I manually selected recording of multiple showing of the same episode so I might have one complete recording. :mad: I hooked up the S3 power to an X10 module so I can power cycle the S3 when needed every few hours from the remote. Woot! Hot setup! Are you proud, TiVo? AFAIK, the D* DVRs were never this bad.

    What was really torquing me off was having to listen to the THX fanfare and watch the TiVo guy take a bow, over and over and over and over again on each power cycle. )

    Rant/digression: It's aggravating that there must 1000s of lines of code in there that serve anything but the customers, what with all of the DRM and no copy flags and encryption and handshakes and authorizations and gathering of data for advertisers.... so when THAT breaks the thing actually working, just tell the customers they're doing something wrong...like turning off the TV.

    Maybe this is for the networks who wanted to be able to disable skipping commercials like they do on DVDs. This way you couldn't even turn off the TV. Now if they make it so you can't close your eyes. :p
     
  2. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    14,222
    2
    Jan 17, 2002
    Northern...
    I tried the making lots o' space thing. Permanent deletes. It was looking like the problem happened when the S3 had to delete a recording to make space. It seemed to last longer but it still locked up.

    I've run into a handful of other bugs, like evidently I'm not allowed to edit my own channel list, I MUST agree I get those on-demand channels that don't work and others. I wouldn't mind that so much if it didn't also insist that Logo and the Spanish channels and the ones I don't receive are my favorites. I change my preferences. The changes are undone at the next hourly power up. Resistance to Comast-think is futile. Look for the guide to have 2/3 a screen full of ads soon. :mad:
     
  3. AdmiralTivo

    AdmiralTivo You talkin' to me?

    116
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    Feb 25, 2005
    netringer:

    If the problem is related to the HDCP handshake over HDMI, then how would a HDD swap fix the problem?

    I have my TiVo connected via HDMI to a receiver, but I'm 100% that I've watched the thing reboot over and over even when the TV and receiver are on. I did get a little relief when I prevented it from going to HD channels, but eventually even the non-HD channels would freeze and the unit would reboot.
     
  4. Gavroche

    Gavroche Member

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    5
    May 26, 2007
    State of...
    Mine seems be ok as long as no HD channels are >ever< tuned. If an HD channel is tuned, sometimes it looks like it's going to work but eventually just ends up locking up. It's >not< HDCP. It does it even when an HD channel is tuned with no HD output (i.e. over composite or s-video with no hdmi).

    I really think it is a software problem related to some internal hard drives, but that is just my theory.
     
  5. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    14,222
    2
    Jan 17, 2002
    Northern...

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    If the problem is hard drive related then how does my leaving the TV on fix it? And how long does it take for a "failing" hard drive in a stock S3 to fail? I'm in week 3 of of my again, STOCK hard drive "failing," which began with 9.3 software upgrade and the CableCARD install.

    I as yet haven't had a freeze since I rerouted the HDMI cable and kept the TV on. I've even tempted fate by going to standby mode. (I did have an unintentional power cycle when I accidentally pushed my X10 button. :eek:) I'll be whooping it up if I get a clean 24 hours of uptime for the first time.

    BTW, I was able to torture test my "failing" hard drive a few nights back by watching a transferring movie while it was recording 2 HD shows at the same time, i.e. Writing 3 HD streams while playing one being downloaded from the beginning. It never hiccuped. The S3 hasn't yet failed while I'm watching.

    I'd be willing to put money on multiple software bugs in 9.3a, though. As I've said, I'd had a few other merely annoying problems with the way it works with CableCARD
     
  6. unit101

    unit101 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2007
    ... is there anything else than needs to be said ?
     
  7. sdzc

    sdzc New Member

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    Sep 3, 2005
    Yes they do, but they rarely, if ever, respond in a negative thread.

    They will be more than happy to say a new this or that is being released, but getting them to respond to an actual issue? Good luck... :rolleyes:
     
  8. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    14,222
    2
    Jan 17, 2002
    Northern...
    I haven't gotten the 24 hours of continuous uptime yet, but it's still rock solid. I haven't had a single lockup since rerouting the HDMI connect.

    I'll buy that it's not HDCP because the lock up happens even as the output would be just the intro or menu screens. There can't be any HDCP on those. (I hope.)

    It occurred to me that it could be something else related to the HDMI connect, like an electrical ground loop. Considering I have a cable ground in the mix...

    There are a few other changes, crash vs. not: in my current config, I have a single massive HDMI cable vs. two going from the TiVo->reciever-->TV. The other cable is a very good one, but not the most premium from mono.

    I absolutely cannot imagine how changing or powering the equipment at the other end of the video output causes the S3 TiVo to crash or not, but it does. :confused:

    I'll do some more testing by turning the TV off for the first time tonight. As I said I can see the effect immediately because the TiVo locked up on boot if the equipment was off. Even as I type that, I'm amazed.
     
  9. clgdswr

    clgdswr New Member

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    0
    Jun 11, 2008
    i had the same tivo lockup issues everyone else is having=======after 6months of using tivo hd it went into a reboot cycle that wouldnt end========i removed the 160gig wd hard drive it came with and I installed a 320 gig WD sata drive=====used instantcake====and tivo worked perfect with 9.3 for a few weeks====and its now intermittantly locking up again but not power cycling=====i would probably upgrade if I were you but expect it to lock up until TIVO releases whatever fix they are going to release=========and heres a thought-------what is going to be wrong with the next software? Maybe the programmers will cause the HDMI port to short out intermittantly and burnt out millions of HD tv's............lets hope they get it right
     
  10. aymanme

    aymanme Member

    79
    0
    May 8, 2001
    Austin, TX
    My issue seems to be a little different (or maybe I am just misunderstanding what everyone else is saying). My Tivo is "working" for at least some amount of time, certainly not hours, but more than minutes. Then it just craps out and reboots. After it reboots, the cycle starts again. Any tips? I have personally not seen it happen, I've only seen it on the "tivo is starting up".

    Edit: Now I have personally seen it happen, temp looks ok, fan seems to be working, so I don't think it is a heat issue. Not sure what else it could be.
     
  11. AdmiralTivo

    AdmiralTivo You talkin' to me?

    116
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    Feb 25, 2005
    I had the same issue, aymanme. I tried all of the suggestions in the various threads here. What eventually (kinda) worked was removing the cable input to the TiVo before it rebooted fully, and then tuning to a non-HD channel. I ensured that no HD recordings were in the queue as well. I reconnected the cable and was able to watch SD programming as well as recorded shows (both HD and non) for a few days.

    Eventually though, even this stopped working and I had to disconnect the cable input permanently and watch only recorded programming. I decided to swap out the HDD myself and that seemed to fix the problem, at least for now. I am up and running with full functionality, it's been at least 5 days with no issues thus far.

    I'm hoping that the new 9.4 update is partly to address this issue, and will prevent it from ruining another HDD.
     
  12. aymanme

    aymanme Member

    79
    0
    May 8, 2001
    Austin, TX
    I didn't go through the routine because I was just too busy with other things. However, once the 9.4 update hit my Tivo, it has worked flawlessly since then. No reboots in several days, whereas before it could not make it through a 1/2 hour show.
     
  13. Malcolm Blanchar

    Malcolm Blanchar New Member

    4
    0
    Mar 26, 2007
    When I got back from vacation in early July, I had the problem of the series 3 freezing and rebooting about 20 minutes into watching recorded shows. Also, it would randomly reboot when I wasn't watching. My series 3 has a Western Digital expander I bought from Tivo last October. This weekend I finally got around to dealing with the problem. I first tried the kickstart 54 tests. About 20% into testing the expander, the system rebooted. So, I divorced the expander from the system. The series 3 then passed all the tests and has been working without any problems since. So, I suspect something had happened to the expander.

    I still have 9.3. I think I might put the expander back on after 9.4 arrives. Anybody have thoughts about whether that should work? Or do I now own a $200 brick?
     
  14. TerpBE

    TerpBE Go Terps!

    697
    1
    Jan 23, 2003
    Philly 'burbs
    My first two S3s all ended up in freeze/reboot land after about 10 months. Both were connected using component cables - not HDMI.
     
  15. mrdazzo7

    mrdazzo7 Well-Known Member

    5,618
    246
    Jan 8, 2006
    There seem to be several different problems going on right now so I'm not sure what steps to take, but I do know you're description is the closest to what I"m experiencing. With coax unplugged, the tivo works perfectly. Once I plug it in and try to navigate TV, it goes nuts. I was working with non-HD channels for a few days, but today it seems to be unable to do anything with live TV...It stutters, then freezes, then re-boots.

    So a hard drive switch worked for you, huh? I'm reluctant as HELL to go get a new drive because I've read that didn't work for some people. But I'm also reluctant to go through the pain of disconnecting and shipping my unit only to have them send me a dead on in its place. I got a re-furb less then a year ago, so I think it's under warranty, but damn what a pain to send it back.

    Does Tivo send you a unit to use while yours is being looked at? I don't think I should have to sit here w/o TV for three weeks while they work on the defective unit they sent me. Anyone have any experience w/ the refurbs? Thanks
     
  16. secondclaw

    secondclaw Member

    389
    20
    Oct 3, 2004
    Florida
    I had the same problem when 9.3 came out.
    I also ended up replacing the internal disk drive, which permanently fixed the problem (it's been many months with Tivo working flawlessly). Now, I did test the disk afterwards and did not find any issues, so I assumed that some part of the filesystem became corrupted during 9.3 update (area where the live buffer is stored - who knows).
     
  17. oneitchyeye

    oneitchyeye New Member

    5
    0
    Jul 22, 2008
    Having same problem here, just started on me. My TiVo Series 3 rebooted last night and came back fine, today was watching TV (about 12+ hours later) and it rebooted again. Would reboot, stay on the "now playing screen" and not do anything. A few times after rebooting it would start playing live TV for a few mins then reboot again. So I unplugged the cable and it worked fine. Plugged back in the cable and it started to choke, would not respond to remote control and reboot again. Unplug the cable and it is golden again. I'm watching all the recorded content fine.

    I suspect something in the cable cards or the signal. It seems unplugging the cable worked for others as well. When did the last update get pushed out?

    Also has anyone contacted Tivo about this? It is too late tonight but I'll check with them in the morning.
     
  18. Beachbum55

    Beachbum55 Member

    77
    5
    Jan 1, 2004
    My S3 has the same symptoms. I'm going on one week with a useless Tivo box. When the coax cable is disconnected, I have no problems watching previously recorded shows and navigating through the menus. Plug the cable in and it's HOSED!

    I've contacted Tivo twice and they said it's a known issue and I was told last week that it would be "several weeks" before a fix was in place. I'm going to hold off on replacing the hard drive until I know more. Isn't 9.4 being pushed out to some people?
     
  19. Beachbum55

    Beachbum55 Member

    77
    5
    Jan 1, 2004
    I called Tivo technical support again today for an update regarding the lock-up/freezing/re-boot issues that I started to see on 7/14.

    This is the third time that I've talked to Tivo support over the last 10 days. During the first two calls, the technical support reps told me that a "fix was on the way", but couldn't pinpoint the exact date.

    The guy I spoke today recommended that I send in my unit for an exchange, as the next software version may or may not fix the problem. I thought about upgrading the drive, but Tivo is going to swap my S3 out for free. So, I'll give the exchange unit a try and hope that Tivo doesn't send out another release that hoses the hard drive.
     
  20. mrdazzo7

    mrdazzo7 Well-Known Member

    5,618
    246
    Jan 8, 2006
    How does that work? Do you have to pay to ship it to them? What are you supposed to do without your Tivo in the interim? I guess get over it... If you could give me some details as to what the process is like for sending the unit in, I'd appreciate. I'm considering it myself...
     

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