Series 1 upgrade - MFSLive command line question

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by krick, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Feb 5, 2012 #1 of 34
    krick

    krick Member

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    The last time I upgraded my TiVo was many, many years ago with MFSTools 2.0. This time, I'm giving MFSLive 1.4 a try.

    I'm taking the original 14GB TiVo hard drive and expanding it to two 120GB drives.

    The questions are about the command line to use. The MFSLive guide suggests one thing...

    ...but using the MFSLive Interactive Command Generator, it suggests something slightly different...

    What's the difference between the 127 vs 128 and what does the missing "n" parameter do?
     
  2. Feb 5, 2012 #2 of 34
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    First of all, never use -q

    Secondly, what are the brands and model numbers of those twin 120s?

    Thirdly, do you want a full explanation and understanding of MFS Tools, MFS Live, and WinMFS, or do you just want me to tell you the best ways to do what you're trying to do, or mostly the second with a little of the first?
     
  3. Feb 5, 2012 #3 of 34
    krick

    krick Member

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    Then why do both MFSLive command lines suggest it?

    I currently have identical 120 Seagate drives installed from the previous upgrade back in 2003, but I think one is failing. Since you can't really get 120GB drives anymore, I'm using two non-matched 120GB drives that I had laying around that are in very good condition (low hours):

    Seagate Barracuda 7200.7
    model# ST3120026A
    7200 rpm
    8MB cache
    http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/ata/cuda7200pm.pdf

    Maxtor DiamondMax 16
    model# 4R120L0132011
    5400 rpm
    2MB cache
    http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/maxtor/en_us/documentation/manuals/diamondmax_16_manual.pdf

    I know that you shouldn't use 7200rpm drives in a TiVo, but the two previous upgrade drives were 7200 and they lasted 9 years. The Barracuda is a fairly quiet drive so I'm not really concerned.

    We'll, I already have some experience with MFSTools from back in 2003 when I upgraded this TiVo as well as a second TiVo for my bedroom. However I assume that in the last 9 years, things may have changed, so I'm trying to do whatever is recommended these days.

    The TiVo unit is a standalone Philips Series 1. I have the original 14GB drive and I was planning on using it to build the two new 120GB drives using MFSLive this time (instead of MFSTools 2.0).

    I understand that the 127/128 parameter is the swap area and I know that MFSTools has a bug that limits you to using 127. I also know that MFSLive fixed that bug and allows you to use larger values. With that said, is there any reason to use 128 instead of 127? Personally, my gut says that using 128 is better since it's a power of 2, but I really don't know.

    So, I think that gives you a little idea where I'm coming from and what my experience level is. Any guidance you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
     
  4. Feb 5, 2012 #4 of 34
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    -q suppresses any info or messages, and I'm a firm believer in being able to see what's going on as much as possible.

    Apparently -n limits a drive larger than the LBA28 limit of 137GB (which I think is 128GB binary, but I'm not going to bother to do the math) to only using the first 137GB of it.

    In a case like that I prefer to run copykern and make the kernel LBA48 aware so all of the drive can be used. copykern will also properly initialize a swap partition larger than 127MB.

    Do not use the -p on a Series 1 drive, it will create an S2 and newer "optimized" partition layout which can come back to bite you in the unmentionables later.

    Also, don't bother with -z

    As long as the replacement 120s have an LBA number equal to or greater than the number on the original drives you could just use dd_rescue off of the MFS Live cd and "Xerox" them

    dd_rescue -v /dev/source /dev/target

    (might be some old shows on there you still want to watch)

    Have you considered spending an outrageous sum of money on a new SATA drive and a more moderate sum on a SATA/IE adapter with a Marvell chipset?

    Have you considered using WinMFS instead of MFS Live?
     
  5. Feb 5, 2012 #5 of 34
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to mention I've got an already copykerned 13GB 3.0 image you can download in both flavors, WinMFS and MFS Live.
     
  6. Feb 5, 2012 #6 of 34
    krick

    krick Member

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    Gotcha.

    Well, I considered that, but currently my TiVo is stuck at the black loading screen (I think it says something like "almost there"). I fear that cloning the old drives will put me in the same situation with the new drives. However, I would like to save the old recordings if possible, so maybe I'll try that first.


    What would that get me other than a lighter wallet? I don't even come close to using the 300 hours I have now so I don't need larger drives. Maybe some day when IDE drives are impossible to obtain.

    I considered it briefly, but it seems like more drive juggling is required. You need to connect 3 tivo drives (1 old, 2 new), plus a CD-ROM drive, plus the drive with windows on it. That leave you short one IDE connector. Is there something I'm missing? Is WinMFS better/easier?
     
  7. Feb 5, 2012 #7 of 34
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    With WinMFS you need the drive Windows is on, the original 13GB Quantum, and one of those new drives attached to the computer.

    Do the copy procedure.

    Power down the computer.

    Disconnect both TiVo drives.

    Test the new drive in the TiVo.

    If all is well, connect it back to the computer, along with the other new drive, boot and open WinMFS and do the add procedure.

    Or use my image and only have to have the Windows drive and one new drive attached to begin with.

    Does the internal modem on that TiVo still work?
     
  8. Feb 5, 2012 #8 of 34
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong, you need a copy of the MFS Live cd to keep around even if you don't own a TiVo, and it still works fine for a lot of TiVo wrangling, but WinMFS can simplify some things.
     
  9. Feb 5, 2012 #9 of 34
    krick

    krick Member

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    I actually have a few CD-Rs from when I did the original upgrade with the following labels:

    TiVo Drive Image 14hr 3.0
    TiVo Drive Image 20hr 3.0 OLD
    TiVo Drive Image 20hr 3.0 NEW

    I guess I must have made backups at the time or something.

    I think my second TiVo came with a 20hr drive, which explains the 20hr images. Not sure what OLD vs NEW means. I should have took some notes or something.

    You say you have images with upgraded kernels? Where might one get those?

    I have no idea. The modems used to work on both my TiVos. However when I ditched my home phone, I got TurboNET cards.


    Going back to the SATA adapter idea you mentioned earlier... I imagine that having a single 500GB SATA drive instead of two 120GB IDE drives would probably be better from a noise, heat, energy use perspective. Additionally, there would only be one drive that could fail instead of two.
     
  10. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8919428#post8919428


    Then as long as you give it a dial prefix of ,#401 you shouldn't have any problem.

    You can go as high as a 1TB drive, or 2 1TB drives, one master, one slave.

    And yes, two drives increases the chance of one of them failing and depriving you of the recordings on both.

    And yes, one is less hot than two.


    If you go that route (SATA plus adapter), read the adapter thread first, as S1s are very finicky about what drives and adapters they'll work with.

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883

    Do you already have any spare SATA drives lying around?

    If you buy new, you'll probably get more GB per $ with a 1TB than anything smaller.
     
  11. krick

    krick Member

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    Sep 5, 2003
    Someone needs to make a summary post for that thread. Way too much information spread over way too many pages. It looks like these are the recommended adapters for a Series 1 TiVo...

    Rosewill RC-A-SATA-IDE
    Addonics ADSAIDE
    Koutech IO-ASA120

    Is that correct?

    EDIT: I found another cheap adapter, the Startech IDE2SAT that appears to use a Marvell chipset...
    http://goo.gl/BUzQg

    I happen to have two 500GB Western Digital Green SATA drives, model#WD5000AACS (16GB cache) sitting here doing nothing.
    http://www.wdc.com/en/library/sata/2879-701229.pdf
     
  12. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Here's your summary, read the whole thing to appreciate what others have been through to put that info at your fingertips.:)


    I think the Startech is the Addonics without Addonics name on it. (but with an Addonics level price)

    The Rosewill is nearly the same thing with minor changes to the circuit board layout (including putting the master, slave, cable select jumper on the side of the board that faces away from the drive, a much saner choice).

    Also the Rosewill is about $10 cheaper.

    I've got one of them and an Addonics and can't tell any difference in performance on an S1.

    I've got a couple of the Koutechs as well (responsive support and customer service people there, by the way--I talked to them to find out what chipset and if the power jack was supposed to be upside down), and they work great as well, but add too much length to the drive to use in an S1.



    I don't know for a fact that those particular drives will work in an S1. If it were an S2 I would assume that they would. Although for either you may need to run wdidle3 to disable the Intellipark feature that keeps the TiVo from being able to do soft reboots.

    http://files.ngohq.com/fs/wdidle3.iso

    I also don't know for a fact that they won't work in an S1. Caviar Blues (SATA or PATA) don't work in S1s for some reason, but that may not indicate anything when it comes to Greens).

    Get the Rosewill from newegg and try one of those 500s. If it works you can put it back on the computer with the other one and run mfsadd.

    If not, you've got the right adapter and can grab a different SATA drive when prices come back to earth.
     
  13. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Krick,

    Your post on the adapter thread triggered an email to me alerting me someone posted to it, so I opened it up and wound up strolling down memory lane and found something I'd forgotten.

    A guy I hand held a little bit on his S1 Sony upgrade used a 1TB Caviar Green (WD10EAVS) successfully (Sony and Philips S1s pretty much identical internally, including what adapters and drives work), so your 500s ought to be good to go.

    Of course if you're going to use both, you'll need 2 of those Rosewills.
     
  14. krick

    krick Member

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    Sep 5, 2003
    I ended up ordering a pair of the Rosewill adapters from Newegg. The shipping actually got cheaper (per item) when I ordered two. A single was $1.99 shipping, two were $2.99 shipping. Go figure.

    I'm going to try going to a single 500GB drive in my TiVo for lower noise/heat/energy usage. I'll save the other drive and adapter for my other TiVo, which will eventually suffer a drive failure as well.

    I'm also going to try WinMFS and see how that goes. What's the rule of thumb on swap size? 500GB drive = 500MB swap?
     
  15. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, when I tried to order 2 of the Koutech adapters from them, it was like $1.99 shipping on one but for 2 it was like 8 bucks, so I wound up doing it as 2 separate orders.

    Rule of thumb* on swap is 1 MB for every 2GB of drive size, which would mean 250 (or 256 if you like powers of 2) for a 500GB, but just on the off chance you decide to go with both drives in the one TiVo and use those PATA drives on the other one, why not go with a swap partition size of 500 (or 512). It's only like 0.1% (one-tenth of one per cent) of the total drive size, which at best quality is only like 15 minutes of SD video.

    *I'm not sure whose thumb was originally use to determine that.:)
     
  16. krick

    krick Member

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    Sep 5, 2003

    My WD5000AACS drive isn't on their list, though that doesn't mean that it's not affected...

    http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html

    According to the article, one of the symptoms of the issue is... "Artificially increases the number of load-unload cycles in S.M.A.R.T.". If there were some easy way to check this, I could tell if my drive was affected.
     
  17. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Just get the .iso, burn it as an image, and boot with it and enter

    wdidle3/D

    on the command line with only the cd deck and the WD drive hooked to the computer.

    It'll either do it and tell you so (it might report setting the setting to 300 seconds or something like that, which is just as good as disabled with regard to the soft reboot problem), or else it'll say something like this feature not supported on this drive, in which case you know you don't have to worry about it.

    Problem solved for the price of a single CD-R
     
  18. krick

    krick Member

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    Sep 5, 2003
    I finally got the Rosewill adapters in the mail yesterday.

    I used WinMFS to put the image on the 500GB drive.

    I also ran wdidle3 and disabled the parking, and another tool to adjust the acoustic management setting to 128.

    Before I fire it up, I'm going to go out tomorrow and see if I can find some double-stick tape to make sure that the SATA adapter doesn't come off.

    Here's the resulting mfsinfo. Let me know if you see anything amiss...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    As I said back when we were going to do this with MFS Live--

    Do not use the -p on a Series 1 drive, it will create an S2 and newer "optimized" partition layout which can come back to bite you in the unmentionables later.


    When you do it with WinMFS there's supposed to be a checkbox on the same pop-up screen where you set the swap size that lets you choose the optimized format or not.

    You're supposed to not choose it, or choose to not use it, however it's worded.

    Looks like you missed that.

    You've got partition 11 starting at base 64. On an S1 that's where partition 2 is supposed to start.


    Your local CVS pharmacy should have the 1 inch wide white foam tape by 3M in stock in the stationery section. That's exactly what you need.

    In addition to putting it on the back of the adapter to secure it to the drive and insulate the solder side so it doesn't short against the drive, you can cut a narrower strip to put on the front to secure the power lead to. Put it on there sticky side down, then lift the paper and lay the wires along it. Then take the other part of the narrow strip and stick it down on top of that.

    Go look at the picture on the weaknees website of the adapter they sell (which is not the right chipset for an S1). Notice the holes cut out for the chipset and other integrated circuits.

    Peel some of the backing paper off of the foam tape and put it on the back of the adapter and make a template of what needs cutting out to let a little air get to the black things with silver legs so that they don't overheat.
     
  20. krick

    krick Member

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    Sep 5, 2003
    I just did it again. In the current version of WinMFS, there are no options on the restore dialog other than the swap size.

    I guess I should use the MFSLive boot CD instead.
     

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