Seattle area change of fequencies - stations lost

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Barnstormer, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. Barnstormer

    Barnstormer Member

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    Sep 23, 2015

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    Today 10/19 several of the local network stations changed their frequencies to accomodate FCC rules. RV-23 is what I am told they will use.
    As they advised I rescanned one of my two Roamio OTA boxes

    There is no signal. Nothing, zip, nada. No 23-1 shows up in the channel scans.

    No signal on the Roamio I did NOT rescan either.

    What might I be missing if anything?
     
  2. longrider

    longrider Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Oct 26, 2017
    Elizabeth, CO
    The 23 is just the physical channel, you will not see it after a scan. KIRO 7-1 did move to RF23 this morning, after a rescan on your TiVo you will see a 7-1 and a 7-1* The 7-1* is the one found by the scan and you should be able to tune it. TiVo will need to update the guide data to get that moved over.
     
  3. oscarfish

    oscarfish Active Member

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    I've got the same situation with the same channels.

    Am I correct in thinking that:

    7-1* is the new channel found by the scan, but Tivo doesn't have that new channel information in their database yet, but eventually will. 7-1 is the old channel. 7-1 has all the program information, but of course I can't tune in any of these. While I wait, I unselect 7-1 in the channel list and make sure 7-1* is selected. When Tivo updates the database with the current channel info, and that gets downloaded to my Tivo, everything will magically work
     
  4. Barnstormer

    Barnstormer Member

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    Sep 23, 2015
    That's my understanding. Until then I have to assume that my one-pass instructions won't work since it well be telling the Tivo unit to record on a frequency that is broadcasting nothing. Not so good.

    FWIW, I never upgraded my Roamios to the new interface. I like the written grid a lot better than pictures.
     
  5. Barnstormer

    Barnstormer Member

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    Sep 23, 2015

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    How long does it take Tivo to update the directory. This switch has been know for at least two weeks. That's when the stations starting warning us about the 10/19 deadline.
     
  6. longrider

    longrider Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Oct 26, 2017
    Elizabeth, CO
    You are correct, One workaround is to leave 7-1 in your list so you can see the schedule and do manual recordings on 7-1* for the shows you want. Unfortunately they wont have the program name on the recording but at least you will be able to watch it. TiVo does seem to be doing a lot better recently with these changes, the updates frequently happen with 24 - 48 hours
     
  7. Wil

    Wil Unknown Member

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    How recently did you report it? My experience is, ordinarily, 2-3 days.

    This is self-service. Tivo (Rovi) doesn't, independently, know much about TV.
     
  8. Barnstormer

    Barnstormer Member

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    Sep 23, 2015
    I just reported it today 10/19. There response is:

    "We apologize for the inconvenience. This issue has already been reported to our Lineup Team for correction. They are still working on mapping the program guide to the new frequencies. It's expected to be corrected within the next 5 - 7 working days but likely sooner."
     
  9. oscarfish

    oscarfish Active Member

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    Oh crap. I forgot about the OPs. This happened to me a year or so ago and now I remember that I had to muck with all the OPs for the affected channels, even after Tivo updated the database.
     
  10. tluxon

    tluxon Member

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    Feb 28, 2002
    Kirkland, WA
    Ironic that my "now defunct" Windows Media Center, along with HDHomeRun and Channels DVR each properly retained their guide data with the virtual-to-physical map change while our OTA TiVos still have no guide data for the moved channels after the re-scan and several network connections.

    Interestingly, the guide shown by kmttg is still properly populated - too bad the TiVos can't seem to use the same information kmttg is using for those channels.
     
  11. haydeecm1

    haydeecm1 New Member

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    Jan 2, 2016
    Does anyone have this issue with NBC King hd 5-1? I am in Kirkland and now i have this issue on BOTH CBS 7-1 and NBC 5-1, they appear to have moved and the new listing does not have guide data.
     
  12. tluxon

    tluxon Member

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    Feb 28, 2002
    Kirkland, WA
    You have to have your tuner do a re-scan and then verify that the boxes in the Channel List are not checked for the old channel(s) and are checked for the new one(s) - an asterisk will appear next to any newly found channels. There was still no guide data for 5-1 or 7-1 last I checked, so you'll have to set up manual recordings for those channels until the guide is populated with correct information.

    Caution: You might be tempted to leave the old channels checked in the Channel List to see the program information in the guide, but then the TiVo will try to record from the old channel (same virtuals 5-1 and 7-1) and fail.

    At first I thought this mess was all the fault of TiVo, but KOMO 4-1 changed their physical channel from 38 to 30 and pulled it off without a hitch, so there's evidence that KING 5 and KIRO 7 may have done something different that didn't work so well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  13. gary.buhrmaster

    gary.buhrmaster Active Member

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    There is a huge number of steps and variables in the repack process, and while all the stations in the location (even those not moving(*)) have to evaluate the same criteria, not all stations need to perform the same steps. And schedules sometimes slip, too (weather happens, or at least I have been told weather happens, in the greater Seattle area :)), making the best intended plans be something else. There is a report commissioned by the FCC that evaluated many of the steps that a typical station would have to do (it was used to estimate the costs to the station for the repack). Not surprisingly, the report had easy, average, and hard issues identified which would depend on the location (I believe Sutro Tower in SF was used as the poster child of being super hard (I think they just wanted to use the photo of the tower poking above the clouds in the report)). So, yes, differences happen.

    (*) Typically stations share a tower with other stations, and if the other stations need work done on that tower, that may force a station to use alternative transmitter facilities or go low power for a period, as a matter of safety of the workers on that tower.
     
  14. eric102

    eric102 Member

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    Anyone else have their signal strength change after the repack? 5-1 got stronger and is rock solid now where it used to have a lot of breakups. 7-1 which used to be very stable is now almost unwatchable loaded with breakups. Same thing with the TV tuners so its not a TiVo issue. I'm about 40 miles from the towers so kind of on the fringe for my small rooftop antenna.
     
  15. Skram

    Skram New Member

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    Oct 21, 2019

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    Curious were you successful in setting up a manual recording? I have tried a few times with no luck and even support did not have a straight answer if this is possible without a guide. Still waiting for an answer as I am SOL for shows I record on 5 and 7. They said they are aware of these guide update issues and will do there best to send them down to my Tivo ASAP!
     
  16. Skram

    Skram New Member

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    Oct 21, 2019
    Folks you all need to create support tickets for your account to let Tivo know this is not acceptable!!!

    They should have updated our guides a week ago as they were more than aware of these channel update in our area as well as other areas in the US. They owe us an explanation as to what happened and how are they going to prevent this in the future!

    Most of all they should have posted and should still post something on their web site about this issue or refer folks to this Tivo Community and post something here. Maybe they have and I have yet to find it as i just created my account in an effort to find information and workarounds... If they did sure would like a pointer:) I have to get back to my day job...
     
  17. haydeecm1

    haydeecm1 New Member

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    I was able to create manual recordings. I don't know if this is what did it, but I was originally having issues creating manual recordings for these channels until I deleted the old 5-1 and 7-1 from the channels list.
     
  18. JxxAxxY

    JxxAxxY Member

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    Oct 18, 2018
    Well FCC on September 3rd Extends Phase 5 Tv Station Repack. So that might tell you the switch over is probably all over the place now.

    Phase 6 October 18th 2019
    Phase 7 January 17th 2020
    Phase 8 March 13th 2020
    Phase 9 May 1st 2020
    Phase 10 July 3rd 2020 (This seems to be out further than I remembered)

    You gotta remember a lot of these stations are being put on new towers and some are installing stronger signals Hence the post above with better signal. It isn't just a frequency change.

    Let alone everyone knowing when each of these new stations are actually making a switch.

    From my understanding there isn't enough installers to do all the work needed at the same time. The station itself contracts out as you need cranes and helos to add the new sections of tower. Be patient and report to Tivo and they will work with their guide vendor to correct the channel changes.
     
  19. John9871

    John9871 New Member

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    Aug 15, 2019
    Some of the stations sold out. They got millions for their digtial spectrum.

    Lets see, I lost all the 22's, 28's and 46's. Everything else is in disarray. Unable to hide multiple channels. Guide info not provided on certain channels.
     
  20. gary.buhrmaster

    gary.buhrmaster Active Member

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    Nov 5, 2015
    As mentioned, details vary. In some cases the waveguides need to be replaced (different frequencies may require different guides), or the antennas need to be replaced (frequency matters, and for certain channel repacks (combinations) the antenna radiation pattern needs to be modified), or the transmitter needs to be replaced (some transmitters are frequency agile, some are not), or (in some cases) the tower itself needs to be substantially modified (new/different antennas may involve different wind/weight loading issues). There is no "one size fits all" change here.
    The industry has *mostly* managed to schedule the tower crews to accommodate the phases, but weather happens, unexpected issues happen, and safety is first, so some schedules get pushed back. And there are certain towers where there are only around a dozen qualified crews across the entire US due to the special complexity of that tower.
     

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