SDV Adapter Progress

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by britdiver, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. Jun 3, 2008 #141 of 290
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Austin

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    So you are that ONE guy!!!:D
     
  2. Jun 3, 2008 #142 of 290
    ah30k

    ah30k Well-Known Member

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    Not just him, they have the local PEG on in the lobby of our township building and the library. That makes three!
     
  3. Jun 4, 2008 #143 of 290
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    'Not in my estimation. First of all, Cox represents much less than half of the subscribers in the U.S. Secondly, this may not be a nationwide policy for Cox. It may, but it also may not.

    I don't think anyone was laughed at for the suggestion some providers might decide not to charge extra for the adapter. I find it unlikely all of them will offer it free, unless forced to by the FCC

    'Not soon enough by far for some. I certainly won't be shocked if I don't have one in my hands before the new year, nor would I be surprised to find more than half of all cable subs with S3 class machines are still waiting in January.

    I would be ecstatic to be surprised on both counts.
     
  4. Jun 4, 2008 #144 of 290
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    True, but the basic tier doesn't represent all that much bandwidth or that many channels in many cities. In some it's only 12 channels, or in others only 21. Converting the mid-band and super-band, or even just the super-band to all digital will increase the number of channels by a huge amount.
     
  5. Jun 4, 2008 #145 of 290
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    One which allows two-way communications. They are common, but not universal. Some have upstream amps as well as downstream, but most are passive upstream.

    Ordinarily you should not need an amp for 4 sets. Unless your subscriber drop is rather long or at least one of your wall drops are quite long the engineering of the CATV plant should allow for decent levels on 4 sets with no amplification. Have someone check the RF level at the subscriber tap and calculate the minimum level behind your sets. If the output of the subscriber tap is low, the CATV company must fix it. Otherwise, unless there is considerably more than 200 feet of RG-6 coax between the subscriber tap and the furthest TV, you should not need an amp if all you have is a 4-way splitter under your eave or in your attic. Make sure the splitter is of high quality and the coax is at least RG-6 with high quality connectors that have been properly installed. Eliminate any extra coax jumpers or unnecessary splitters. Avoid splices.

    Two way house amplifiers have been available for over 30 years, and have been quite common for over 20. If actually required (which is fairly rare), some CATV companies will provide a house amp for a minimal charge or even free. They provided the one in my house free (the longest RG-6 run for my house is over 300 feet, and I have 10 outlets plus broadband).
     
  6. Jun 4, 2008 #146 of 290
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    HD and digital broadcasts (which are not the same thing) do not require any special sort of antenna in and of themselves. That said, some of the local broadcasters are changing to a different antenna for their digital and / or HD broadcasts, and some are going with a lower power transmitter. Depending on your location relative to the new tower, you may need to re-orient your antenna for best results. The new digital frequency is also different. In some cases, the old viewer antenna may not be sufficient, but this is a geographical and transmit power issue more than an antenna type issue.
     
  7. Jun 4, 2008 #147 of 290
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    It varies by the CATV provider. Here in San Antonio TWC has been adding channels at a mad pace for nearly a year. All the new channels are SDV, including both HD and SD offerings, and of course lots of on-demand stuff. All the digital (including all HD) offerings available previous to adding A&E HD last year are linear. All channels added when A&E HD was added and subsequent to then are SDV.
     
  8. Jun 4, 2008 #148 of 290
    ah30k

    ah30k Well-Known Member

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    Uh, the Q&A conversation that you replied to was specifically about PEGs and the basic tier. You are veering off course from the intended topic of the Q&A stream which was:
    PEGs going SDV does that seem wrong,
    no since the analog versions are still available,
    but they are going all digital soon,
    no they are not for the PEGs/basic tier​
    .
     
  9. Jun 4, 2008 #149 of 290
    routerman

    routerman New Member

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    Austin, Texas
    Austin has a 21 channel basic service with 9 being public access programs. I would like to be able to put 18 HD channels in the place of these very-seldom watched channels.

    I agree that converting these other channels (midband and superband) to digital would be great, but I bet there would be more customer outrage if they moved higher viewed channels to digital only. Moving public access channels might be a good test of the waters.
     
  10. Jun 4, 2008 #150 of 290
    Dunnie

    Dunnie New Member

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    Well ... it finally happened in Bergen County. Cablevision has switched all the VOOM stuff to SDV. No more redundant monster channel or kung foo channel. Any word on the SDV adapter ... no way am I switching from TIVO Series 3 for this. :mad:
     
  11. Jun 4, 2008 #151 of 290
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Use the lessons from the kung foo channel and have patience, young one. The mythical tuning resolver will be here soon (July, with every finger and toe crossed) ;).
     
  12. ASW

    ASW Member

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    Jan 18, 2007
    In response to a question about tuning adapter availability, I received the following email from Cablevision:


    "TiVo is working closely with the cable industry to develop a device, expected to be available in 2008, to enable our TiVo Series 3 HD DVR and TiVo HD DVR customers access to switched-video programming. The Tuning Adapter is intended to work with any Unidirectional Digital Cable Ready Product (UDCP) that has a USB connector and necessary Firmware. Cablevision will update customers on the availability of this device in the coming months.

    "If you should have any other questions please visit us at www.optimum.com.

    "Thank you for choosing Cablevision.'
     
  13. cramer

    cramer Member

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    Raleigh,...
    Exactly! To put it in other terms, it's like your computer running whatever OS and apps your ISP sends it. Consumer choice is gone; who makes your computer is irrelevant.

    Actually, it's almost exactly the same as a cable modem -- which is exactly why it's been so quickly prototyped. It *is* a cable modem -- a DOCSIS Set-top Gateway -- running an SDV client app plus the "tuning resolver" protocol bridge/translator/whatever-you-wanna-call-it. A stock cable modem would need an appropriate SDV client and it's USB CAM replaced with the tuning resolver interface. With the well noted exception of NOT HAVING AN RF TRANSMITTER, the tivo can do all of this on it's own.

    Sadly, the cableCARD does exactly what it's supposed to do. SDV, however, is a loophole the cable companies are now driving truck loads of elephants through. The *problem* is the huge lack of standards and (still) no certification track for bidirectional devices -- OCAP ("tru2way") is the only path for a device with a transmitter in it. If cable companies really didn't want all this "one way mess", then they (read: Cable Labs) should have created certification standards for bidirectional devices over a decade ago. Which brings us to the other part... despite a growing number of detailed "standard" specifications, 90% of cable networks still use closed, undocumented, proprietary technologies. There are no public, open standards that use an upstream channel, so it follows that there's no need for a bidirectional certification.

    It needs repeating that the cable industry doesn't want any of this. Why do you think it took a mandate from congress to create cableCARDs ("a seperable security system")? And a further mandate from the FCC to make them actually use the damned things? They'd be perfectly happy rattling off "new" standards every few years to look like they're playing along, except the FCC finally grew a pair and said no to moving the integration ban again. But by then the SDV loophole was open for business -- f*** you, we'll make you use our (not EVER certified) hardware anyway.

    If you really want something to crusade over... cable operators aren't required to use Cable Labs certified equipment themselves. They're free to use whatever crap they want -- as long as it has a cableCARD in it, now. This is how they get away with having bidirectional devices noone else on Earth can build, with features noone else can support.
     
  14. dubluv

    dubluv tivo lover

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    Mar 3, 2006
    long...
    even though its open to speculation, cable co's ARE interested in keeping tivo users as customers, and providing an adapter insures the continued financial stream from us. let's say they delay or deny or want a big chunk of money for the adapter, we then threaten we'll switch to fios or sat or whatever. if we had no other options, we'd be screwed. try calling your cable co and tell them how pissed you're gonna be that you're losing channels to sdv, and if they don't do something, you're gonna end your sub. (i don't work for fios, but i know for a fact that you'll be offered something to stay a customer, but you may have to cancel your account for a day to start the action)
     
  15. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    Jan 10, 2002
    NJ
    problem with that is the amount of tivo subs on any one cable system is pretty small. So small that it's probably more sound money wise to tell the tivo people to take a hike rather then waste the money involved to get us taken care of.

    Luckily for us- there are more complext politics involved in the bigger picture...
     
  16. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Why do people continue to believe this? It's completely false. OCAP / tru2way won't be able to touch the OS or to any significant extent the UI. Under any circumstances, the only thing which will run on a TiVo is a very specific Linux Kernel and a very specific set of applications. While the Linux kernel is open source, the applications are not, and if you think TiVo is going to make their source available to the CATV companies, you're nuts. OCAP / tru2way is middleware. It's not a UI, although there are primitive UI utilities designed to handle on-demand services. In the proposed solution, the user will switch to a blank UI which renders the on-demand services. These will not have any acccess to the MFS partitions, and the user will not be able to record any on-demand channels. For ordinary viewing, the user will switch back to the familiar TiVo UI. The OCAP utilities will have the ability to request limited additional menus and folders within the TiVo, but the TiVo will control where they go, how they are accessed, and what they look like.

    The problem with OCAP / tru2way is not its interfering with the TiVo UI. The problem is the user cannot control the delivery of software and features. The CATV system - deliberately or otherwise - will be able to load spyware or a virus to the TiVo, and there is nothing the TiVo owner can do about it. The CATV companiesa re also not required to allow third party developers to create applications and have them put onto the TiVo at the owner's request.
     
  17. cramer

    cramer Member

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    Aug 14, 2000
    Raleigh,...
    Because that's the way it works. Go. Read. The. Flipping. Standards.

    (It's all JAVA(tm), by the way. which is it's own can of worms.)

    If I wanted to build OCAP boxes, I'd be building a system to run a java vm providing the API's required by the standard. Bottom line, your experience will be whatever your cable operator wants. No matter who makes the box, they will all look and function exactly the same (within the same cable network.)

    But don't listen to me -- someone who read the OCAP specs, laughed and then burned the hard drive containing them. CE manufacturers and Tivo, Inc. have complained about it as well. Tivo *CANNOT* make an OCAP Tivo that will be the tivo you expect it to be because it's up to whatever the MSO sends it - PERIOD. Even the "Comcast Tivo" isn't a tivo, and that's with Tivo, Inc. providing the app.
     
  18. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    Well perhaps you must of missed this piece of information:
    http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519815500
    I do agree with Java being a can of worms, however...
     
  19. acvthree

    acvthree Active Member

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    Jan 17, 2004
    Carrollton,...
    >>>Well perhaps you must of missed this piece of information:

    Have those adjustments for Tivo been put into the standard or are those adjustments to the standard only an agreement with Tivo?

    Al
     
  20. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Jan 23, 2006
    Mission...
    From the quote above it seems like the plan is to amend the OCAP specs themselves to satisfy Tivo, but that should also allow any other licensee to also take advantage of those amendments. Of course what is being proposed on paper is a lot easier than the actual implementation...
     

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