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Discussion in 'Season Pass Alerts' started by InspectorGadget, Nov 26, 2007.

  1. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Indeed, and as a matter of fact, that's tangentially why I'm no longer recommending that my friends buy the TiVo S3/HD -- I think that the product line is so mature at this point that, as compared to just renting the cable company DVR for a couple of years, a better TiVo will come along before any of my friends would realize enough value. As an early adopter, you have that many more months/years of service before your device is no longer relevant.
     
  2. InspectorGadget

    InspectorGadget TiVo Changed My Life

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    Except that they orphaned me many years ago so it would be more like a $20/month subscription if I had upgraded when they abandoned me.

    And there's nothing wrong with the hardware. It's virtually the same, except that they DON'T EVEN MAKE D-TIVOs ANY MORE! They just decided to not to update the software because THEY WANT TO FORCE ME TO UPDATE THE HARDWARE AND PAY MORE SUB FEES. It's an end-run.

    So don't give me an empty, hackneyed platitude like, "technology advances." I can live with not having multiroom viewing; I only have one decent TV anyway. The worst and most underhanded thing is that they keep hitting my set with irrelevant "updates" that scramble my recordings by reverting to the LBA32 kernel! This is proof that technology is not just advancing. They are specifically sabotaging my efforts at keeping my machine current and usable.

    My point is that the updates they send have nothing worthwhile. WHY DO THEY KEEP SENDING THEM??? It takes me about 10 hours to recover. If they're making updates for this "discontinued" model, why don't they put something worthwhile in them??

    All I want is for them to leave me the !@#$% alone if they're not going to truly support my machine.

    And it's nothing, nothing like getting a new computer. You have to get a new computer to keep up with Microsoft (and other app) Bloat. The TiVo power is roughly the same. It's just a matter of segregating the TiVoApp functionality.
     
  3. azitnay

    azitnay Active Member

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    If you were willing to make the upgrade to LBA48 in the first place, why not install one of the various hacks that blocks automatic software upgrades?

    Drew
     
  4. InspectorGadget

    InspectorGadget TiVo Changed My Life

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    AFAIK, there are no hacks which reliably, reputably prevent automatic upgrades. If you know of any, please point me to the thread (not really appropriate to discuss in detail here, I think).

    In brief, I know of two, boot block and startup script, but both have reports of not working, also. DVR Playground's official position (after repeated asking and pleading to them and to the community) is that the only way to do it is to disable the daily call completely, which disables PPV ordering through the TiVo which also disables automatic PPV recording. I need this feature.

    I'm embarrassed to say that I've never actually tried the known hacks, given the mixed reports I read about them. Perhaps when I rebuild my currently corrupted system (from the update in July -- it's been out of service for a month and a half) I'll put in both hacks and cross my fingers... Thanks for the reminder.
     
  5. azitnay

    azitnay Active Member

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    I've always been under the impression that it was as simple as setting a boot param of upgradesoftware=false... But I've admittedly never had the necessity to try it. Definitely worth a try to avoid the potential pain of an upgrade, though.

    Drew
     
  6. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    Umm, as far as any of us on the outside know, it is *DIRECTV'S* decision whether to upgrade the software.

    so it's not Tivo's decision.
     
  7. InspectorGadget

    InspectorGadget TiVo Changed My Life

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    It may not be TiVo's direct decision to push the update, that is certainly a function of DirecTV. However, it is TiVo that writes the software and creates the updates. DirecTV simply forwards it. So I would argue that it IS TiVo's responsibility and fault in continuously furnishing updates that are irrelevant in function and serve largely to wreck the systems of people who are trying to stretch some life out of their investment.
     
  8. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    You can choose to think whatever you wish, but the reality is quite the opposite of your assertion. DirecTV tells TiVo what to do and what not to do. DirecTV decides whether or not to push updates. TiVo isn't the decision-maker here. Why are you so reticent about accepting that DirecTV is responsible for what you're concerned about?
     
  9. InspectorGadget

    InspectorGadget TiVo Changed My Life

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    I'll admit that I have no real information either way.

    I guess it just doesn't make any sense to me that DirecTV would be "behind" it. DirecTV does not employ software engineers, at least at the TiVo level, AFAIK. It's TiVo support engineers that answer questions about the function of the machine on the phone or in the fora, not DirecTV. DirecTV doesn't produce or offer the machine any more; they're pushing their OEM DVR.

    So how and why would DirecTV be originating and driving changes to the software?
     
  10. JLucPicard

    JLucPicard Active Member

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    You contact TiVo (by phone or the web) and they ask if you're inquiring about a DirecTiVo and if you are, they refer you to DirecTV - they don't handle those inquiries themselves. And DirecTV decides which TiVo features get turned on for the DirecTiVos and which features don't. There's a whole community of people discussing how to hack certain DirecTiVos to add the features they want, but DirecTV doesn't allow TiVo to push.

    I'm a fan of DirecTV - been with them for a decade now - but TiVo only does with the DirecTiVos what DirecTV allows them to do.
     
  11. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Software engineers don't push software updates out to clients. And DirecTV contracts the software development.

    Sorry, but again, you're simply off-base.

    Credit to DirecTV that they still support it... but they still support it, no one else. TiVo, as a rule, does not support the DirecTiVo.

    They are the only ones who can.

    Here's the press release:

    http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=257482

    Quoting:
    Not, "TiVo to introduce new features for the DirecTiVo".
    Not, "TiVo's launch of these additional features..."
     
  12. InspectorGadget

    InspectorGadget TiVo Changed My Life

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    Well, don't be too quick to deprecate me. If you're trusting exact wording of press releases, I don't think you have any more real insight into the process than I do. That press release already has an objective lie in the first line.

    Here are a couple of articles for you. First, an article about the latest DirecTV acquisition by Liberty Media, with a quote from the CEO that "Liberty isn't in the business of making DVRs."

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070801-updates-show-more-signs-of-new-love-between-tivo-directv.html

    Here is a sample contract between DirecTV and TiVo very clearly spelling out TiVo's responsibility in doing the software development.

    http://contracts.onecle.com/tivo/directv.dev.2002.02.15.shtml

    It's evident from this contract that DirecTV had a lot to say about what went into the DirecTiVo, but after owning both a Series1 Standalone AND DTiVo and seeing all the similarities, DirecTV's modifications to the UI were minor and focal. Obviously there was a lot of exchange of information on the protocol level for interfacing to the satellites through the sat tuners, but all the code was written by TiVo.

    While DirecTV drove a lot of this at the beginning, I don't think they're driving bug fixes or minor updates to the TiVo. I admit this is a guess, but I haven't seen any proof either way. And I don't know why DirecTV would be initiating this when they're pushing their own DVR now.

    Your adamant assertions that "the reality is quite the opposite of your assertion" and "DirecTV contracts the software development" (unless you mean TO TiVo) and that I'm "simply off base" and that "they are the ONLY ones who CAN" do not have any supporting proof, so they are as flimsy as my own claims are. In fact, DirecTV is by definition NOT the ONLY ones who CAN, because obviously TiVo CAN, since they wrote the software in the first place. And I'm doubting whether they (DirecTV) write software at all.

    My claims are admittedly guesses, but they're educated guesses based on having worked in OEM and ODM consumer businesses for six or seven years now. What are your claims based on? A press release?
     
  13. InspectorGadget

    InspectorGadget TiVo Changed My Life

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    There isn't anything I know of in the DirecTiVo that DirecTV "doesn't allow" TiVo to "push" unless you're referring to easter eggs like 30-second skip activation. These hacks are consistent across DTiVo and SA-TiVo units so they don't have anything to do with DirecTV directing them to be included or excluded. And there's nothing in the SA TiVo that's not in the DirecTiVo so there isn't anything that DirecTV is "turning off." I know this from direct experience since I own and currently use both.

    In my previous post you can link to and read the development contract between DirecTV and TiVo. DirecTV defined how some of the screens looked and the protocols and such, but TiVo defined the program guide operation (thank God), the operational features and wrote all the software.

    It's all virtually the same as the Standalone TiVo which has nothing to do with DirecTV. That's why I find it hard to believe DirecTV is the driving force behind what is in the DTiVo.

    I am also a fan of DirecTV, also for nearly a decade, but that doesn't automatically mean DirecTV is calling all the shots.
     
  14. InspectorGadget

    InspectorGadget TiVo Changed My Life

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    Well, notwithstanding my arguments about the details, I must admit that JLucPicard and bicker have made me reconsider my original position.

    Especially given that my SA-TiVo hasn't been updated since version 3.0 (though TiVo, not DirecTV, came up with a DST update for the SA at the same time that DirecTV pushed an update for the DTiVo for DST update) and the DTiVo has been updated several times to ver. 3.5d, I am willing to consider that DirecTV is requesting and/or directing some of these updates (though I still believe TiVo is writing them).

    So I officially shift my hatred to DirecTV for wrecking my LBA48 DTiVo installs.

    Happy? :rolleyes:


    BTW, I'm still pissed at TiVo for not supporting LBA48 in the SA and DTiVo kernels. I still believe they're responsible for this omission, though they probably would have put it in the DTiVo release if DirecTV had demanded it.
     
  15. azitnay

    azitnay Active Member

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    Perhaps not on the Series1 platform... But there are plenty of features, such as multi-room viewing, on the Series2 platform that never officially made it to DirecTiVos, and it's my understanding that it was totally DirecTV's call on that one.

    Drew
     
  16. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    I think you're grasping at straws trying to rationalize your position because you simply cannot stand the fact that who you want to blame for your dissatisfaction isn't the blame. I haven't any idea why you'd so enamored of DirecTV and have such antipathy for TiVo. It seems like it is a personal thing, with you. Nothing more.
     
  17. InspectorGadget

    InspectorGadget TiVo Changed My Life

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    And you're grasping at straws to be vituperative.

    I just said I blamed DirecTV, what do you want from me??? I don't care about DirecTV. I hate them both. I love them both. What, am I psychotic? I get this way when people badger me and badger me and badger me and badger me and badger me and badger me and badger me and badger me and badger me...

    The fact is, you don't appear to have any more idea what's going on than I do. What's your problem? Why do you keep assaulting my character? I just stated what I thought was going on and I got all this "the reality is quite the opposite of your assertion" and "you're simply off base" and all this absolutist language about how wrong I am.

    All I know is that between DirecTV and TiVo they keep wrecking my DTiVo with LBA48. I don't really care who is to blame because it won't do me a bit of good anyway!
     
  18. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't there a sticker saying "no user serviceable parts inside" or similar?

    All of us hacking our Tivos know that it's not officially supported, and any software update can potentially screw them up. You should have known that risk when you hacked it.
     
  19. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    And should reconcile yourself to the consequences and ramifications.
     
  20. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    How about the big one (for many people), multi-room viewing (MRV)?

    (Oh, I see from you next post that you've got a series 1 DirecTiVo. Yeah, the series 1 platforms are much closer in terms of features, likely because the S1 DTiVos were still DirecTV's main DVR when TiVo retired the S1 platform)

    But MRV is avalible on all series 2 & 3 standalone TiVos (now anyway. S3 units took a while to get it), and unavalible on DirecTivos (unless youv'e got an older series 2 DTiVo that you've hacked). The code is present on the DTiVo (which is why the hack works), but disabled.


    And DTiVo was years late getting the new wishlist functionality and deleted recordings folders. (It did get those in the last update, right? I didn't install that one because it removes the ability to run a MRV hack)
     

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