Scaler Question

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by beastman, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. Jun 2, 2007 #1 of 28
    beastman

    beastman New Member

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    May 25, 2002

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    Further to my recent question about SD pcitures on a LCD I looked a liitle into the idea of getting a scaler.
    I then realised it would cost a fortune but then I stumbled across this and hoped anyone would know if this would be a good option:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GEFEN-DVI-VID...ryZ61395QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    also see here:

    http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4174#buy

    I wonder if this would make a significant difference to displaying SD material on a HD screen. Maybe this one that costs a fortune would be perform much better:

    http://www.onevideo.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=398

    Anyone got any experience of these scalers and would the cheaper one do the trick?
     
  2. Jun 2, 2007 #2 of 28
    CarlWalters

    CarlWalters Yo Ho TiVo!

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    Oct 17, 2001
    RG4,...
    I have no experience of these products as such but to up-scale video properly is tricky - 3D filtering and all that malarkey. The only real way to decide if you want to spend the money is to see one in action in a set-up as close to your own as is possible - if the end result looks good to you then thats all that matters.

    Having said that I'd be wary of spending close to £2K ;)
     
  3. Jun 2, 2007 #3 of 28
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Dec 25, 2006
    I don't have any experience of that box, but certainly a good scaler makes quite a difference with a fixed pixel display. I use a PC to do it, and the improvement in SD pictures is marked. You hardly notice any pixellation or artefacts, just a "softness" of the image compared to HD.

    remember your TV includes a built-in scaler, so just the fact of scaling doesn't improve things automatically, only of what you buy is better than your TV's on board kit.
     
  4. Jun 3, 2007 #4 of 28
    Heuer

    Heuer New Member

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    Mar 15, 2004
    Nottinghamshire
    I use a Lumagen HDP Pro in my system (for DVD and TiVo) and the picture quality is superb on a 50" plasma. I took it a stage further by having an SDI mod on the TiVo - picture quality from TiVo is DVD quality and DVD quality is way beyond what you would expect. To do it properly you will need something like the Lumagen or Crystallio scalers and add £300 to get your screen calibrated by a professional.

    Alternative is to put a progressive scan convertor between the TiVo and screen. These are cheaper and will give better results than an interlaced output. I use a Zinwell one between a second TiVo and 42" plasma. http://www.keeneelectronics.co.uk/electronics/info/dnl_files/pdfs/PSC200i.pdf
     
  5. Jun 3, 2007 #5 of 28
    6022tivo

    6022tivo A Happy Member

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    Oct 29, 2002
    UK

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    I have often looked at these things but have been put off with the cost.

    I use a 50" Pioneer 505 XDE, it has the media box. I don't know if the media box has any clever electronics, but the picture is very good, best analogue picture I have seen on any plasma or LCD is on the pioneer 505 XDE. However this set was 5K when it came out. I have said it before and I will say it again, you get what you pay for.


    I actually brought it for half price £2.5 when the 506 model came out, right place right time.
     
  6. Jun 3, 2007 #6 of 28
    Heuer

    Heuer New Member

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    Mar 15, 2004
    Nottinghamshire
    A Lumagen scaler will cost about £2,000 and it uses some very high performance processing chips and clever software to do its job. There have been about 30 releases of software in two years as they constantly tweak it - all free to download from the Lumagen support site. Specialist item that needs proper setup (usually included in the price) as they are very complex.

    Nothing will compare to the pictures it is capable of putting up though! Amazing device. http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php
     
  7. Jun 3, 2007 #7 of 28
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    One day I'll justify that! Meanwhile, using a PC with ffshow achieves a lot of the same thing for a tiny fraction of the price.
     
  8. Jun 4, 2007 #8 of 28
    6022tivo

    6022tivo A Happy Member

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    For the TV I actually watch now days (not much), I can not justify the spend. I often look on ebay for a cheap unit, (still remember the tivo I got for £40 BIN about 3 years ago when they were selling for £250).

    One day I will come across one, is the SLI mod the one with about 30 wires having to be soldered on the tivo system board?? I have been tempted by this mod.


    p.s. Isn't this thread nice and peaceful?
     
  9. Jun 4, 2007 #9 of 28
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    You, me and everyone else, which is why they never go cheap!
     
  10. Restorer

    Restorer New Member

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    Jan 6, 2002
    NE England
    Can you explain what you need for this please?
     
  11. Lysander

    Lysander New Member

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    Sep 18, 2003
    Bedfordshire
    Best to look at www.avforums.com for that. There is a whole forum dedicated to HTPC building.

    From memory dScaler is a great way to power a fixed pixel display, but only works with certain graphics cards.

    HTH
     
  12. surrey lad

    surrey lad New Member

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    Sep 15, 2005
    Epsom...
    I've been using for the past couple of years a crystalio 1 scaler with my dear TiVo plugged into it via scart-RGBs. Having just ordered (10 mins ago) a crystalio 2 I'm now wondering should I get my TiVo modded to SDI. BTW i'm running in mode 0 or similar.

    Did you see a BIG difference after modding yours :)


     
  13. Heuer

    Heuer New Member

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    Mar 15, 2004
    Nottinghamshire
    The SDI mod was done by PJ Hi-Fi and if your scaler accepts SDI then the improvement in picture quality is very impressive - almost HD. My TiVo is running in mode 0 as well. Cost of the mod will be about £200 - I paid to have the chip software modified to work with TiVo and made it free to other TiVo users.

    The work was done about 2 years ago and the TiVo has not misseed a beat since. It does involve soldering about 10 fine wires to the motherboard and a board/socket mounted through the TiVo back plate- all very tidy.
     
  14. healeydave

    healeydave from tivoland.com

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    Jun 4, 2003
    Midlands
    Do they supply the mod as a DIY install option? cost?
     
  15. surrey lad

    surrey lad New Member

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    Sep 15, 2005
    Epsom...
    I just looked back on an old tread that i'd posted on (post 44) on avforums asking Elliott from PJ how much..........£325. Take a look £325 for an SD SDI is about the going rate really :( SDI made a big difference on my DVD player, couldn't get below black level without it.
     
  16. Heuer

    Heuer New Member

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    Mar 15, 2004
    Nottinghamshire
    You need to talk to PJ Hi-Fi about DIY. If you are good with a minature soldering iron you should be able to do it though as the SDI board is stand alone and held in place to the chassis by the connector. Wires then go to various parts of the TiVo motherboard. There are pictures on the original thread of my install.

    The SDI board will be quite cheap - it is the installation that takes the time!
     
  17. -MC-

    -MC- New Member

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    Dec 9, 2005
    London
    Prices have gone up quite a bit since then, I had my Tivo SDI modded a year ago by PJ Hi-Fi and it was £375.


    .
     
  18. Heuer

    Heuer New Member

    378
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    Mar 15, 2004
    Nottinghamshire
    Probably about what I paid actually - the cost of rewriting the SDI software + the board was £480! It did take them two weeks to get it all working but given they had never even seen a TiVo before .........

    They SDI modded my Arcam DV27 DVD player and offered to do my Sky box, but I decided to do the TiVo instead.
     
  19. DeadKenny

    DeadKenny New Member

    268
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    Nov 9, 2002
    Woking, UK
    Crazy prices for these mods! For that money you could buy a SkyHD box and get SD scaling to HD apparently plus get HD channels.

    Okay it's not TiVo, but if it's picture quality you want on HD TVs, TiVo is a poor choice as I've discovered.

    Not sure about scalers as the built in scaler on my TV seems to do a cracking job with DVDs and even Sky via aux. TiVo sucks though, but I haven't gone for mode 0 yet (slightly concerned about the white flickering issue in mode 0).

    As for HTPCs, there's a lot of control over the picture with a PC and various bits of software. Only thing I'm not sure about is scaling analogue external sources as you need to get it into a PC capture card in decent enough quality and live with it being digitised, and how would you get an RGB SCART signal into a PC?

    I've played around a bit with HTPC stuff playing back downloaded videos and DVDs though and can get some excellent results scaling, but it's not so much the scaling than the way you can manipulate the dark levels (vital for LCDs).
     
  20. healeydave

    healeydave from tivoland.com

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    Jun 4, 2003
    Midlands
    HD Channels ?what those being the same ones already on HD

    You not making much sense here, the whole point of the SDI mod was to improve quality, as you haven't got the mod then your quoting something that wasn't being claimed in the first place. Also, this mod was originally pre-HD but as the users have claimed, the improvement with Scaler is apparently superb!

    Again your moaning about tivo's quality and you haven't even attempted the modest hacks. There is an old thread on here where-by I have stated my picture quality using a Tivo with mode0 hacks and certain equipment is so good, HD is not a tempter for me at the moment and I am honest and sincere in that still today!!!!

    I do think now HD is here all the tivo tweaks (mode 0, contrast hacks etc) are necessary and even then, the results are very dependent on the other kit, not necessarily from a "having to buy the most expensive brand" point of view, but simply finding a set whose picture and colour balancing engines etc work well with the tivo. If you hit on the right combination, I think the HD incentives have to be far better than the upgraded picture but a downgraded operating system that skyHD offers!
     

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