Samsung 1TB HD $99+Shipping

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by buddhawood, Oct 19, 2008.

  1. Nov 9, 2008 #41 of 105
    retired_guy

    retired_guy New Member

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    Aug 27, 2004
    Saratoga,...

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    I've done some more research on the EcoGreen drive and have concluded that my the assumption that the EcoGreen drive having a slower "spin-up" is the source of the hard boot problem is incorrect. For example, the Samsung HD103UI spins up in 12 seconds, whereas the "works OK" WD10EACS takes 13 seconds, probably because it rotates faster. It doesn't appear to be a power issue either in that the WD10EACS has slightly higher peak amps than the HD103UI at spin-up.

    I did a series of tests to see whether varying the time from power off to power on would impact the problem but couldn't find anything definitive. Out of 19 reboots, it failed 7 times (five gray screens and two never ending power ups) but there wasn't any observable reason for failures versus successes.

    I replaced my HDMI cable with a better quality one and thought I'd fixed the problem in that I got in 3 reboots with no issues. I then got a gray screen when I booted up the TiVo with the TV (Panasonic LCD) off initially and a hanging power up screen after I rebooted with a very quick power off/on sequence. I thought perhaps the problems were caused by those unusual factors but after a good reboot, I did get another gray screen when I hadn't done anything abnormal.

    I've now verified that the drive works perfectly for me once I'm past the initial boot and that with a maximum of a reasonable number of retrys I can do the hard boot OK. So I'm going to put the HD "into production" with the drive. But it does seem that installing this drive is a crapshoot and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else since other options are available, although at a somewhat higher price today.
     
  2. Nov 9, 2008 #42 of 105
    retired_guy

    retired_guy New Member

    473
    0
    Aug 27, 2004
    Saratoga,...
    I've done some more research on the EcoGreen drive and have concluded that my the assumption that the EcoGreen drive having a slower "spin-up" is the source of the hard boot problem is incorrect. For example, the Samsung HD103UI spins up in 12 seconds, whereas the "works OK" WD10EACS takes 13 seconds, probably because it rotates faster. It doesn't appear to be a power issue either in that the WD10EACS has slightly higher peak amps than the HD103UI at spin-up.

    I did a series of tests to see whether varying the time from power off to power on would impact the problem but couldn't find anything definitive. Out of 20 reboots, it failed 8 times (five gray screens and three never ending power ups) but there wasn't any observable reason for failures versus successes.

    I replaced my HDMI cable with a better quality one and thought I'd fixed the problem in that I got in 3 reboots with no issues. I then got a gray screen when I booted up the TiVo with the TV (Panasonic LCD) off initially and a hanging power up screen after I rebooted with a very quick power off/on sequence. I thought perhaps the problems were caused by those unusual factors but after a good reboot, I did get another gray screen when I hadn't done anything abnormal.

    I've now verified that the drive works perfectly for me once I've got past the initial boot and that with a maximum of a reasonable number of retrys I can do the hard boot OK. So I'm going to put the HD "into production" with the drive. But it does seem that installing this drive is a crapshoot and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else since other more proven options are available (WD10EVCS), although at a somewhat higher price today.
     
  3. Nov 10, 2008 #43 of 105
    jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
    Very good troubleshooting and analysis. It is hard to know what the problem can be. There are a few other idiosyncrasies with the TiVo (such as not working with certain external WD drive enclosures, no soft reboot on the S3 with the WD EACS 1TB drive which works fine on the HD) that would no doubt be fixed during quality control testing, but by TiVo excluding everything except "officially supported" hardware it makes their job easier but our experience possibly disappointing. Since it seems to work OK otherwise I think it is OK to "live with it" as you propose. It would be a good idea in all cases to get a small UPS to help alleviate any unintentional hard reboots due to power blips.
     
  4. Nov 10, 2008 #44 of 105
    nigebj

    nigebj New Member

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    Sep 8, 2004
    Forget the HDMI cable, when the gray screen is present the IR ack. LED is unresponsive - the machine is hung, not suffering a video problem.

    I have yet to see the gray screen again. I would say putting the unit 'in production' is dangerous unless this is simple a viewing station - if you get a power outage, who knows if it'll comeback ... Of course UPS is probably the answer as it'll smooth brown-outs too.

    The symptoms look way too similar to the PSU failing to deliver enough peak current to spin the drive up for my liking. Although quiet, I am certain the drive was not actually spinning when the gray screen occurred - also, as noted, the drive initialization sounded different when it failed.

    All in all, seems like this is a poor choice of drive.

    BTW: Does anyone know what the jumper settings are on this drive. The booklet delivered with mine does not cover them and I could not find them on the website.
     
  5. Nov 10, 2008 #45 of 105
    steinercat

    steinercat New Member

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    Nov 16, 2007

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    No need for primary/secondary jumper setting for SATA drives.

    My drive did NOT come with any jumpers.
     
  6. Nov 10, 2008 #46 of 105
    GregComeLately

    GregComeLately Member

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    Nov 27, 2006
    western...
    Sounds sort of like the etching of glass with a knife. It's almost as if something is wrong or will go wrong eventually given how seemingly difficult or how much of a struggle it sounds like it is having when writing to the platters. Has anyone else experienced this? I don't remember the original Seagate drive sounding this loud.

    When just spinning (when I was doing the transfer process), it was very quiet. Although as I type this, I realize that it must have been writing throughout the transfer process too, but I didn't notice any sound at all the couple times I listened closely. Perhaps it wasn't writing to the disk surface/s at those specific moments?

    Should I be concerned about this? Are there any quieting[sic] utilities to quiet it down or check on it's health status w/ respect to writing to disk??

    EDIT: I should also mention, nothing problematic has occurred, recording-wise, since I installed this hard drive about a week ago. Also, it hard-booted up that first time without a problem.
     
  7. Nov 10, 2008 #47 of 105
    jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

    1,063
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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
    I have not heard one of those drives so I do not know what they should sound like but Samsung drives can be detuned with Hitachi Feature Tool or Linux hdparm command. Both would require the creation of a boot floppy or CD (unless you have a Linux based computer for hdparm use).
     
  8. Nov 10, 2008 #48 of 105
    steinercat

    steinercat New Member

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    Nov 16, 2007
    Never noticed until you pointed it out. :)

    THD is not close enough to bother me though, and like you, nothing problematic has happened.

    Can AAM be disabled/enabled from WinMFS?

    The Samsung ES Tool can disable/enable AAM.

    Try at your own risk. ;)
    http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/support/utilities/ES_Tool.html
     
  9. Nov 11, 2008 #49 of 105
    GregComeLately

    GregComeLately Member

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    Nov 27, 2006
    western...
    thanks for the linked info, guys. I'll delve into it more closely when I get the chance. :)

    One thing I think I've noticed is that when two programs are being recorded at the same time, the writing volume is a little louder. When I grab hold of the front of the Tivo box with one hand, sort of "pinching it" between my thumb and forefinger at about an inch or two back from the front of the Tivo box & above where the hard drive is seated, I can feel some of the vibration of the writing in my finger & thumb.

    Another odd thing noticed: when the Tivo isn't dual recording, it's still recording from both tuners all of the time anyway (the 30 minute moving capture thing), yet, it's a tad quieter and I don't feel this vibration anymore. :confused: I would think the noise and vibration would be the same either way. Regardless of whether you are "officially" recording or not, the same physical recording process is taking place.
     
  10. Nov 14, 2008 #50 of 105
    steinercat

    steinercat New Member

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    Nov 16, 2007
    Just used ES Tool to turn AAM 'on' and set it to QUIET. It was 'off' to begin with.

    It's definitely quieter.

    Turned on SMART as well. not sure if that was necessary.

    Interestingly, I got the gray screen when i put the drive back in, took the power cable off and turned on, and It's back to normal now.
     
  11. Nov 14, 2008 #51 of 105
    BlackBetty

    BlackBetty I

    2,455
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    Nov 5, 2004
    I ordered this drive and it came without a sata computer cable. wtf. where should I go to buy one of these? Or better yet can someone point me to one online for cheap where I can order it?

    Thanks!
     
  12. Nov 15, 2008 #52 of 105
    lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
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    For a internal TiVo upgrade you don't need any cables.
     
  13. Nov 15, 2008 #53 of 105
    mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2006
    Ellicott...
    According to the OP it's an OEM drive, which means it's just the bare drive with no cables, box, manual, or software. SATA cables are cheap and can be purchased from any number of sources. Check ebay or monoprice.com for cheap sources of just about any type of cable.
     
  14. Nov 15, 2008 #54 of 105
    BlackBetty

    BlackBetty I

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    Won't I need to hook up my new drive and my original drive to my computer at the same time?

    I figured I would just unplug my computer hard drive and plug that cord into my tivo original drive. Then that leaves me with plugging in my new 1TB drive into my PC.

    Right? Or am I missing something?
     
  15. Nov 15, 2008 #55 of 105
    lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    I guess if you want to copy the content from your original drive that would true, but to use WinMFS you still need a Windows XP Hard drive on your computer. You can copy the original drive to your PC hard drive than turn the computer off and connect the new drive in place of the original TiVo drive and restore it from the image. Doing it that way you will not have any programs on the new drive.
     
  16. Nov 15, 2008 #56 of 105
    donnoh

    donnoh Member

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  17. Nov 16, 2008 #57 of 105
    nigebj

    nigebj New Member

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    Sep 8, 2004
    Well after a physical move and another gray screen, I think I'll be retiring my new Samsung drive from TiVo duty :( Still I have a media server it can go live in.

    How is the noise on the Hitachi ?
    Must admit I don't really trust Hitachi - I've had more Deskstars fail than any other brand/model - but much older ones.

    I note most of the power saving features will not kick-in due to the live recording buffer.

    So, I'm back to being in the market for a really good 1TB or larger drive for my TiVo HD.
     
  18. Nov 16, 2008 #58 of 105
    steinercat

    steinercat New Member

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    Nov 16, 2007
    Deskstar/Deathstar is old, old....really old news. :D

    BUY.com has the WD10evcs at $125 shipped.

    I got the gray screen as well after turning on AAM, but unlugging it powering up again fixed everything. Anyways, I don't unplug my THD enough for this to matter so, I'm fine with it now.
     
  19. Nov 16, 2008 #59 of 105
    Ladd Morse

    Ladd Morse Member

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    Feb 21, 2002
  20. Nov 16, 2008 #60 of 105
    nigebj

    nigebj New Member

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    Sep 8, 2004
    Hmm, I worry about extended power outage - esp. when away from home. Having the UPS expire before the power comes back on is OK - but not if the TiVO doesn't startup!

    Can't standing 'living' with a problem I don't understand - if I understood the parameters properly I could make an informed decision. Got another TivOHD this week - to see if it is the drive, or the chassis - can't understand why we have some people with no issues.
     

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