S3 video out turns off after 9.1 upgrade

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by pagefault, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. pagefault

    pagefault Member

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    Since I got the 9.1 update last week, this has happened several times - I turn on the TV (and my AV receiver) and there is no video signal. I unplugged and re-plugged the HDMI cable, to no effect. The unit itself is still happily humming along recording my shows, but nothing I do can make the video appear. Finally, I power cycle the Tivo and everything works fine...for a day or two, until it happens again.

    Is anybody else seeing this? Thankfully, it's just the output, I checked the show that was being recorded at the time, and it is fully intact. I don't like having to climb behind my entertainment center and unplug the Tivo whenever I want to watch TV, though...
     
  2. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    9,063
    59
    Jan 4, 2003
    I'm not sure how you have things connected but it sounds like the HDCP "handshake" is giving you problems. The "handshake" is negotiated every time a component (TiVo, TV, A/V receiver, etc.) is turned on. If the "handshake" is lost it can result in no picture or even copyright protection warning screens.

    Best bet is to either try new HDMI cables or switch to component output from TiVo. Connecting component out from TiVo directly to your TV and digital/optical audio out from TiVo to your receiver should give you what you need and the PQ will be as good as HDMI. Here's a pretty good article about HDMI connections and some of the problems that arise.

    Let us know how things go.
     
  3. bguzik

    bguzik Barry R. Guzik

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    Jan 6, 2002
    McMurray, PA
    This sound suspiciously like the SA CableCARD issue. Check out that thread.

    Don't know your configuration, but check to see if you can still get analog channels (typically those lower than CH100...if you have any). If you can still get Analog channels. The CableCARD problem is likely this issue.

    Another thing to check when it happens is to hit "Live TV" to switch between the TiVo's tuners. When the CableCARD issue has manifested for me, it has been on only one CC/Tuner at a time with the other CC/Tuner working properly...

    Barry
     
  4. pagefault

    pagefault Member

    367
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    Sep 20, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    I'm willing to believe the problem is the HDCP handshake, but I'm not willing to believe that my HDMI cable, TV, or AV receiver is at fault. I have been using this configuration for over 6 months without any issues, then after the 9.1 it has happened twice in four days.
     
  5. pagefault

    pagefault Member

    367
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    Sep 20, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    I know it continued to record while the problem was occuring, but I don't know whether the channel was analog or digital off hand. I'll see what's recording next time I see the issue.

    I've had the same CableCards for about a year now, nothing has changed other than the Tivo software upgrade. Is the CableCard issue you are referring to new to the 9.1 software?

    Thanks!
     
  6. pagefault

    pagefault Member

    367
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    Sep 20, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    Looking at that thread, I don't think I am seeing the same issue. I get no video output whatsoever, no menus, no television, nothing - it's as if the Tivo isn't even connected.

    It sounds like you were seeing the UI fine, but some channels worked and others did not.
     
  7. fizban

    fizban New Member

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    Feb 19, 2005
    I had the same problem. Has done it to me 3-4 times where I had to reset the Tivo to get the video signal back. I tried pushing just about every button on the remote but no signal. Tivo was also running normal with the exception of the video out. My system was also working flawlessly, with the exception of some signal strength problems that was the cable companies fault, for months before the latest upgrade. I have a top of the line EXPENSIVE HDMI cable.

    It happened twice within a week then about 2 weeks later it happened again.

    Does anyone else with this problem use Kidzone? I was wondering if there was some problem with that.
     
  8. pagefault

    pagefault Member

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    Sep 20, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    I have never used Kidzone, so I don't think that is related.
     
  9. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    9,063
    59
    Jan 4, 2003
    Sometimes these things are coincidental; sometimes they are triggered by other events such as an upgrade.

    The symptoms that you’re seeing have been reported long before firmware v9.1, v8.3x and v8.1x were ever pushed out. A search will turn up the same list of usual suspects as listed by the folks here. The HDMI article I linked to in my previous post talks about the very thing you're experiencing and it was published in late 2005.

    However it sounds like you've made your mind up that the latest upgrade is to blame and nothing on your end could be at fault. Since you've more or less discounted most suggestions for a cure I know we'd all be interested in what you eventually decide to do to fix the situation.

    Best of luck! :)
     
  10. pagefault

    pagefault Member

    367
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    Sep 20, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    It's not that I believe my hardware is perfect, it's that I don't believe that it would spontaneously fail in a way that would affect only my Tivo, coincident with the upgrade.

    I might try temporarily switching to component to sidestep the issue if it keeps up, but that's not a fix, it's a hack.
     
  11. NCC2893

    NCC2893 New Member

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    Mar 4, 2007
    New York
    There are numerous other threads on this issue, but I did switch from HDMI to component with one of the S3s that I have, and the problem continues.
     
  12. dtivotom

    dtivotom New Member

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    Dec 10, 2003
    Indianapolis...
    I have done some experiments with my S3 Tivo to get the problem to repeat.

    It seems that if you have 2 shows that are going to start at the same time and they both use cable cards (digital or HD) and at least one or both of your tuners are using the standard cable tuner before the recording, you will blow one of your cards when the tivo tries to tune two cable cards at the same time.

    Manual recordings do not blow the cards. It has to be two season passes or selected recordings due to start at the same time. Also if the tuner does not have to change stations to record, your cards will be ok.

    I have moved my Network season passes to the OTA tuner. If I record OTA 6.1 at the same time as 720 HBO, my cards are fine. If I record two cable card show at the same time (start time that is) It will blow card 1.

    Rebooting is a temp fix for the card, but that only lasts until you record two cable card shows starting at the same time.

    Can someone get this info to the Tivo Programmers?

    Thanks
    Dtivotom
     
  13. pagefault

    pagefault Member

    367
    0
    Sep 20, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    I'm not sure this is the same issue I am seeing. I get no output whatsoever - no Tivo UI, nothing. From the sounds of it, the cablecard issues cause the video input to go wonky, but don't affect the video output. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    The problem I am seeing is a complete lack of video output. Recordings seem to continue in the meantime without issue.
     
  14. pagefault

    pagefault Member

    367
    0
    Sep 20, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    The other issue I have with the it's-some-other-component theory is that the problem is fixed by power cycling the Tivo, but not by power cycling any of the other devices in the chain, nor by unplugging and replacing the cable, all of which would cause an HDCP renegotiation...
     
  15. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    9,063
    59
    Jan 4, 2003
    Look, if you just want affirmation that you're right and everyone else that tried to help you is wrong...done.

    Thousands of TiVo's including ours are working just fine with the new firmware, using HDMI, component, optical and analog connections. If you're confident that your TiVo is broken, get a new one. :rolleyes:
     
  16. c3

    c3 TiVoholic

    3,070
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    Sep 8, 2000
    Silicon...
    Same problem here after 9.1.
     
  17. troche

    troche New Member

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    Sep 23, 2007
    Atlanta
    Someone asked if it was an two - S-Card issue or not. I am on c0mcast in Atlanta. Had my own idiotic saga w/cable cards but eventually all worked out. I am using one Motorola M Card. I have basic plus 1 digital tier but no premium channels.

    New $300 Series 3 working flawlessly, both tuners. Then...

    9.1 update message came Wed 10/17. Today Saturday 10/20 on my Phillips HD set's HDMI input I get HDMI NOT PREMITTED prompt on any TiVo output, either tuner side, live or DVR playback. Just the NOT PERMITTED prompt on the TiVo ouput, period.

    I connected RGB cables instead and am back in business. I notice a slight decrease in picture quality. I don't like that. All season passes seem to be recording OK.

    C'mon TiVo get it together. You are really skating on thin ice w/ your HD customers till you fix this.


    tom in Atlanta
     

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