Rovi Lineup Issues & Corrections

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by BigJimOutlaw, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. Sep 13, 2016 #561 of 1636
    elprice7345

    elprice7345 Active Member TCF Club

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    I'm seeing huge sections of my guide that say TBA for next week:
    * NBC is TBA for 9/19-23
    * ABC is TBA for 9/20-23

    TiVo online shows the same thing.

    tvguide.com doesn't even show ABC or NBC

    zap2it.com shows the guide correctly.

    Is anyone else seeing this or is it an issue with me and/or my area?
     
  2. Sep 13, 2016 #562 of 1636
    mangochutney

    mangochutney Member

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    The absolute problem is at source where the metadata is being produced and compiled. Drastic changes are required. Rules need to be followed globally. More memos than you can shake a stick at.
     
  3. Sep 13, 2016 #563 of 1636
    Space

    Space Active Member

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    When I look at my cable lineup on tvguide.com, it has normal programming for NBC and ABC on those dates, so it looks like it may be an issue with your local stations (in other words a problem with Rovi having the data for your stations).
     
  4. Sep 13, 2016 #564 of 1636
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    Then everyone would ask when exactly each task would be completed, or whine that their specific problem isn't listed or isn't being addressed fast enough. Or complain that a completion date came and went and the issue is still not addressed. Or that the issue was only partially fixed.

    It turns out you can never please anybody anytime. And giving a list and failing to deliver is giving ammunition for a future lawsuit -- it's evidence of other broken promises.

    I've been in situations like this in other companies, and we only told a few of our biggest clients what the upcoming fixes would be. And only if we had an NDA with them. We never disclosed what we were working on until after it had been fixed and tested. It's just the nature of the beast.
     
  5. Sep 13, 2016 #565 of 1636
    rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    Sure. But it would also reduce support by a million times if they acknowledged issues instead of people reporting the same issues hundreds if not thousands of times. Just try calling TiVo Support right now. They are never going to reduce their support nightmare if they don't actually communicate with their customers.
     
  6. Sep 13, 2016 #566 of 1636
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    They'll still have the support nightmare, because of all of those issues I described above. Only the questions being asked will change. It will still be the same number of questions.

    Plus no matter where you put that list, it'll never be prominent enough. You'll be lucky if a quarter of the people stumble onto it.
     
  7. Sep 13, 2016 #567 of 1636
    rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    I'll never buy that complete silence to this problem is the best solution. No one is asking TiVo to list every single wrong channel and missing data. But ignoring customers completely isn't helping this transition at all.
     
  8. Sep 13, 2016 #568 of 1636
    richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    No improvements since posting lineup issues earlier and it's going on two weeks since reporting at least 8 incorrect channels using TiVo's official Lineup problem page.

    Like others here, we're seeing numerous shows and full channels now displaying "To Be Announced". Some channels are recording 24/7 - but not keeping anything.

    Conflicts abound and One Pass recordings are being missed completely. We're busy trying to create manual recordings, but even those can't be created or are failing to get the right show due to conflicts with other One Passes.

    Forced connections result in no improvements. The last one that succeeded was last night. Repeatedly tried to connect today and all are failing during download even though TiVo's Network Connection shows no problems, zero bad packets, etc.

    My heart goes out to legacy TiVo employees. Having endured several corporate mergers and one giant acquisition, I understand that they must be appalled at what's taking place. On its very first outing the new owner's abject failure with what's supposed to be their strong-suit; something that's supposedly in their very own wheelhouse must be incredibly frustrating to folks that have a history of making TiVo a great company before the takeover.

    It's beyond shocking that we're experiencing almost all of the issues listed on TiVo's Customer Support Portal.

    Even after 15 years of TiVo loyalty, I have to admit that if my boxes were not lifetime I would have bailed already.

    We'll see how this goes, but it doesn't look like we'll be investing even one more penny into TiVo going forward unless things get cleared up very soon. And that's terribly sad.
     
  9. Sep 13, 2016 #569 of 1636
    Scott9mm

    Scott9mm Active Member

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    Well, this Rovi merger/buyout/whatever has been a giant step backwards. The TiVo guide was the main reason for buying these boxes. Unless the Rovi guide gets much better fast there won't be much reason for keeping them.
     
  10. Sep 13, 2016 #570 of 1636
    wilsonp

    wilsonp NetMage

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    Danville,...
    Channel Lineup: Comcast Danville VA 24541

    MISLABELED Channels:
    - Channel 814 is WGNAMERHD when it should be Bloomberg HD
    - Channel 266 is WBRADT3 when it should be WBRAW
    - Channel 264 is WBRA when it should be BRPTV (SWVA PTV)


    No Listings:
    - Channel 162 is ELREY has no listings
    - Channel 264 is WBRA has no listings
    - Channel 305 is HBOC-E has no listings
     
  11. Sep 14, 2016 #571 of 1636
    richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    Quick follow-up to my earlier post.

    Forced another connection this evening and was tentatively pleased to see the download complete this time (after four failed attempts earlier) and that loading took about 45 minutes indicating some serious data was coming our way.

    The (mostly) good news is that TiVo resolved the east vs pacific channel lineup issue for the dozen or so channels that were out of whack after the big guide update.

    A number of channels still have TBA in their listings but this latest update will resolve a number of our One Pass challenges.

    It did take a while to get this far (a couple of weeks) and it's not fixed completely, but Thanks TiVo! Hope you get to everyone else's guide issues sorted out ASAP.
     
  12. Sep 14, 2016 #572 of 1636
    epstewart

    epstewart Member

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    After my Bolt connected early yesterday afternoon, my listings (FiOS of Baltimore County MD) jumped from ending at 9/21 to ending at 9/26. I now see a smattering of To Be Announceds where none should be, but not the vast array of TBAs that I saw in my TiVo iOS app yesterday morning (but not on my Bolt, whose guide data was not up to date). At this point, the iOS app and the Bolt seem to have the exact same data, including the smattering of TBAs.

    So I have to conclude that many of the TBAs I saw in the iOS app yesterday morning got filled in with good data sometime yesterday. That data has now been updated to my Bolt.

    So "they" (whoever "they" may be) seem to be "working on the problems." "They" dug themselves a hole, and now "they" seem to be (slowly) digging "themselves" (us) out of it ...
     
  13. Sep 14, 2016 #573 of 1636
    FitzAusTex

    FitzAusTex Member

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    These TBAs and xx Network Programming are such an enormous problem, they will get fixed as promptly as Tivo humanly can.

    I'm much more concerned with so many sports and other programs having no Original Air Date. I generally hate the new verbose descriptions, but without OAD, I'm struggling to know what to spontaneously add to my to-do, and I'm sure my Roamio is struggling to know what to add (or isn't adding, or is over-adding).
     
  14. Sep 14, 2016 #574 of 1636
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, quite a few people are asking for that. But that's the problem! If somebody's specific problem or channel lineup isn't on the list, they will still feel totally ignored but will cancel immediately instead of waiting.

    On the other hand, even if you only list some of the problems, Gracenote will use that list of deficiencies to lure existing Tivo guide data customers away.

    Plus, this list is in a constant state of flux. If they break something while fixing something else, that new bug won't be on the list. The new bug may be worse than the old bug (see "TBA" problems that starting cropping up yesterday). And people will demand an updated list showing when THAT bug will be fixed.

    If you call Tivo, the CSRs will tell you there are a lot of issues. You feel ignored because either your issue isn't being addressed in a timely manner, or because they're not communicating in a way you prefer. That's OK, but I'd rather the engineers spend time fixing the issues than having several meetings on what to put on the list.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  15. Sep 14, 2016 #575 of 1636
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    You seem bound and determined to defend TiVo by saying that there is nothing better they could do to provide some transparency to their handling of these problems. You assume the worst possible implementation, and consequences, of my suggestion to provide a prominent button linking to a list of issues being worked.

    1. The issue list doesn't have to go to an extremely detailed level such as "no guide data for channel ## in region XX". Such issues can be categorized and summarized without having to create 100's of detail items. Here is an example of one item I would like to see listed: "Episodes appear in the Guide marked as 'new' but are not scheduled for recording by a OnePass set for new episodes only".

    2. Maintaining the list should not eat up hours of meeting time taking technical people off their essential work. Knowing what issues exist and prioritizing them is an essential management function. They can handle the list in a few minutes each day. If this isn't true it is a major deficiency of the management team for which there is no defense.

    3. Of course you can't please all the people all the time. But, properly done, the prominent issue list would result in less overall dissatisfaction and many fewer posts. For some reason you refuse to believe that.

    4. That more transparency might hurt Rovi's competitive position is a ridiculous excuse for less transparency. And I doubt it is even true.
     
  16. Sep 14, 2016 #576 of 1636
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    1. From my experience, it most certainly does have to be detailed. People are only concerned with their product, and want to know if their specific issue will be fixed. Most people aren't logical.
    2. From my experience, it most certainly does take a lot of time. Typically about 20%. Plus the list put together by engineering never matches the one that is published, either due to poor communication or intentional removal of certain items. Nobody will confess to altering the list, either.
    3. From my experience, in your customers' eyes the list will never be properly done or good enough. It tends to generate even more complaints.
    4. From marketing's perspective, it most certainly does. In the meeting they are the ones who are most vocally against the entire concept.

    This isn't worst case, it's Murphy's law. It happens a lot.

    Now the only exception to this is if the bug is catastrophic and wide spread or is safety related.

    But even then, when iOS 10 bricked a good chunk of devices yesterday, only after the issue was fixed did Apple release a statement by saying, "We experienced a brief issue with the software update process, affecting a small number of users during the first hour of availability. The problem was quickly resolved and we apologize to those customers." They neither posted an announcement on their web page nor took down iOS 10 while this was being investigated.

    Samsung Note 7 phones were recalled only AFTER over 30 phones had already exploded. And the recall already had an action plan on what to do with the phones, along with statements from several key Samsung people (from their lawyers) apologizing for the problem. That took some time.

    It goes to reputation. If you release a list of problems with your product, the press will always keep bringing them up even after the issues have been resolved. Just ask Hillary.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  17. Sep 14, 2016 #577 of 1636
    rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    Except the TiVo CSRs are giving out wrong information (possibly just to get you to hang up and waste 3 hours of your life running guided setup). This wrong information leads to more calls and more confusion by the TiVo CSRs. There is no way at this point that calls to TiVo are beneficial to anyone involved (TiVo or the customer). By giving out wrong information, it is only causing TiVo to not even have a chance to get proper issue reports to the correct people.
     
  18. Sep 14, 2016 #578 of 1636
    Jed1

    Jed1 Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember that TiVo Support is in Colorado and really has no contact with TiVo engineering in California. If they receive a bunch of complaints that are related then someone will forward that to TiVo engineering in California and then support will then say they are working on the issue but there is no ETA to the fix. As for the guide data that is located in Radnor, PA and has been there since the 1990s.
    So when you call support they have no idea about the guide data and have no way of fixing it so that is forwarded to TiVo in California and then it is probably forwarded to Radnor, PA.
     
  19. Sep 14, 2016 #579 of 1636
    rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    Yes, but my point is, there is no way they are forwarding complaints as of now. There are just too many. When you call, they say there are a bunch of issues and re-run guided setup (knowing full well it will not fix anything especially if support doesn't tell them the trick to switch lineups during guided setup).
     
  20. Sep 14, 2016 #580 of 1636
    elprice7345

    elprice7345 Active Member TCF Club

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    FWIW - I contacted @TiVoSupport via twitter about my specific issue and they replied: "we are in the process of fixing this. Can you let us know if it persists in 24 hours?"
     

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