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Romio OTA MoCa settup with router and romio in same room

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by Ntbrown, May 14, 2018.

  1. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Is the amplifier new for this setup? (i.e. Can it be returned if a better option is identified?)
     
  2. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    This product is new as I had cable before. Stopped cable tv and kept only internet. I replaced the old splitter with this one because I was worried the old one didn’t work right with ota. I will return it to amazon for a better option. I did just look at questions on amazon for this product and several people said it works with their moca network but did not say specifically for Tivo. Should not be this hard.
     
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I was reviewing the reviews, as well, and the MoCA-related "thumbs up" reviews I found were associated with the 4-port model, not the CM-3418 8-port version.

    Do you have more than 4 coax runs that *could* be connected, if you wanted additional TV locations?
     
  4. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    I currently have 4 upstairs and 2 in the finished basement for guests. I can live without the two in the basement. It will be a bear of a time going up and down attic latter to determine which wires are “the” four I want to keep. Ha.
     
  5. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Think of this. I once had to map circuit beakers to outlets. I plugged a radio into the outlets and listened when I popped the breaker. Something along that line might be used. Think outside the box. Since it's just me, I had to get creative.
     
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  6. snerd

    snerd Active Member

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    One of >these< or >those< might be helpful.
     
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  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Oh, when you get a chance, could you check the antenna signal level registering at the Roamio OTA? (i.e. antenna signal, as opposed to MoCA)

    There are a couple ways to check the antenna signal strength via the Roamio OTA, and I’ll try to find a how-to in a bit. (If @JoeKustra doesn’t beat me to it.)

    Related info:
    Basically, it would be good to know where the signal currently stands, prior to any changes.
     
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    As a followup to the previous post Re: checking antenna signal strength, do you have any “F” coax barrel connectors available (e.g.)?

    If so, it might be worthwhile to also test the antenna signal strength at the Roamio OTA if you used a barrel connector to route the antenna signal directly to the DVR, bypassing the CM-3418 amp. (This temporary config would only be for testing whether you actually need antenna signal amplification.)

    edit3: NOTE: You could even remove the MoCA adapter and associated splitter, temporarily, for the purposes of the direct-connect test, to measure the best possible signal achievable absent any supplemental amplification or losses.

    edit2: Speaking of a direct-connect from the antenna to the DVR, I'm curious as to what happened to your cable tech that was going to install that run?


    edit1: p.s. I'd start with the direct-connect Mini testing, though, to make sure the MoCA gear is actually functional.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  9. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    For some reason, MoCA causes people's heads to explode. It's really a very robust technology- whatever coax network it is on, it will propagate throughout the network.

    That being said, the idea of splitting your OTA feed twice is way less than ideal. If you can topology wise, I would run the OTA line directly from the antenna to the TiVo with nothing else in it, and then either use the Comcast side for MoCA, or run a totally isolated MoCA network that doesn't have either OTA or Comcast on it. I can't quite envision your setup, but if your router and modem are near the TiVo, you must have two coax lines there. MoCA doesn't really care what it's running on, as long as you don't cross-connect the Comcast and OTA.

    If running MoCA through the OTA network does work for you, then it's OK.
     
  10. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    I have a rule: turn off the computer about 7:30pm. But thanks for the reference. :)
     
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  11. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    The ita signal strengths are the same as they were before adding the new splitter in attic. Being moved to attic to higher level may have offset adding the the splitter. This was all installed yesterday along with running a dedicated coax for antenna because it kept it separate from the internet cable.
     
  12. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    Believe it or not I find this idea very interesting and would like to try it. Once I run the antenna coax to the Tivo how do I setup the moca network on the internet/modem//router? I look forward to hearing back.
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Wait, so is the antenna now routing directly to the Roamio OTA VOX, bypassing the CM-3418 amplifier in the attic?

    How many coax connections do you now have coming into the Living Room, where the Roamio OTA, modem and TiVo Bridge are located? (It would seem there should now be 3 coax lines coming into the room: one from Comcast, one from the antenna, and the original coax run that was connected to the CM-3418.)
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    How you connect your devices/rooms largely depends on how your coax cables are routed.

    Per your earlier diagram, all the coax runs to your other (non-Living) rooms originate in the attic, and you have a dedicated coax line routed to the modem in the Living Room from Comcast. Do you know how this incoming Comcast coax line routes to the Living Room? Does it also pass through the same Attic location from which your other rooms' coax runs emanate?

    But, critically, if the antenna can bypass the CM-3418 amplifier and still deliver sufficient OTA signal strength to the Roamio OTA VOX for tuning your expected channels, the main roadblock to your MoCA setup, the CM-3418 amp, can be eliminated. This was why I posted the suggestion to test the Roamio OTA's reception both receiving its signal via the CM-3418 (here) *and* via a single coax direct-connection from the antenna (here). (You could even remove the MoCA adapter and associated splitter, temporarily, for the purposes of the direct-connect test, to measure the best possible OTA signal achievable at the DVR absent any supplemental amplification or losses.)
     
  15. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    You would connect the MoCA adapter to the cable side of the network, and connect all the cables going to the Minis to that as well. If you have a gateway from Comcast that has MoCA in it, you might not even need the TiVo Bridge at all, as the router would do the bridging internally between Ethernet and MoCA.

    You'd have to be careful not to split the cable down too much, but that's a lot easier to manage than the OTA side of things. That way, the cable network would carry the MoCA, and the OTA network would just carry OTA.

    MoCA is only a data network, so, in theory, if you had a third cable going to the location where your TiVo and modem/router are, you could have a network with only MoCA on it. This would be the ideal setup, as you wouldn't have extra splitters on the cable or OTA sides. MoCA can co-exist with either OTA *or* cable, but cable and OTA cannot co-exist on the same network, as they use a lot of the same frequencies.

    Conversely, if you wired Ethernet to every room, you wouldn't need MoCA at all, but that's probably a waste of time and effort for you at this point, as you already have coax lines going to each room to feed MoCA to the TiVo Minis.

    It sounds like the amplifier is blocking MoCA, as it is not specifically rated for use with MoCA. I would try direct to the TiVo from the antenna, and see how that works, and then go from there. If you do need to use the OTA side for MoCA, you will probably need a single port amplifier, and then use splitters from there. If you do that, use a two-way splitter in the attic after the amp, and a two-way splitter for the MoCA adapter at the TiVo. Then, connect another splitter to the two-way splitter in the attic, and connect all the Minis to that, so that you have the least amount of loss of the OTA signal. MoCA is very resilient and will blast through multiple levels of splitters, OTA is not, and sometimes will be too weak after just one splitter.

    Conversely, if you go the cable route, use two two-way splitters as well, and then a splitter for all the Minis to reduce the amount of loss on the cable side. Cable modems should get between -7dBmV and 7dBmV signal strength.
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    For the sake of argument, *IF* you could have a direct-connected run from the antenna to the DVR; *IF* the incoming Comcast coax line routed near your central junction point in the attic; and *IF* you have exactly 2 coax runs to the Living Room from the Attic location, you could conceivably connect things as diagrammed below, noting:
    • An amp is not a splittter; any splitters used would ideally be known-good MoCA-compatible splitters such as the Holland GHS-PRO-M series or Verizon's MoCA 2.0-rated splitters. (e.g.)

    • The initial 2-way split of the incoming cable line is to ensure that the best possible signal is delivered to the modem/MoCA adapter location.

    • The "PoE" MoCA filter should be installed as diagrammed, on the input of the initial 2-way splitter, to keep MoCA signals from exiting the house, onto Comcast's premise, and to maximize the performance benefit of the filter.

    • The pictured separate modem & router may be a single combo modem/router (gateway) device.

    • Cap connected but unused wall outlets with 75-ohm terminators

    Example setup, with dedicated antenna-to-DVR coax, and cable-connected coax plant:

    OTA_w_CABB-MoCA.png
     
  17. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Two questions:

    1. What TV market are you in and approximately how far are you away from the transmitters? If you don't want to post your exact ZIP code, an approximate radius would help (within 10 miles or so).

    2. What model cable modem are you using, or are you using a combination modem/router gateway contraption from Comcast?

    MoCA is dead simple to use, I think that amp is blocking your MoCA signal. In any case, a distribution amp like that really limits your flexibility to mess around with how the splitters are set up to get the minimal amount of loss to the TiVo's OTA tuner.
     
  18. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Great explanation. The one comment I would add is that if the OP has the Comcast gateway contraption, she's already got a MoCA adapter in it, and can skip that second splitter and TiVo Bridge. Sometimes the MoCA adapter has to be enabled by Comcast though.

    I would also ID and disconnect any unused drops on the cable side, as unused drops are just a problem waiting to happen for noise ingress. Any extra splitter ports can be terminated right at the splitter. For the initial setup, skipping this step is fine though.
     
  19. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    I totally misunderstood. I thought you meant take antenna coax off if the living room splitter on the moca adapter. Oh well. So no, I do not have a direct line as you now described. I would have to have the guy come back to add another line using a splitter off the antenna. and I’m beginning to think all of this is just too much. I repeat. Shouldn’t be this hard. I don’t want to give up because there is a solution. Maybe I can find a moca expert in Richmond. I was hoping this would help the next person with my problem because I couldn’t find the answer anywhere but now I’m thinking it will discourage them. If I’m mentally up to this challenge again down the road I’ll try again. Thank you SO MUCH, really, for all of your time and efforts. You have been wonderful.
     
  20. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Don't give up on MoCA. It's a great technology, very simple, and very robust. The problem is, it's just not compatible with some amplifiers. There's nothing TiVo can do to get around the physics of that.

    Whatever line you are using for the OTA, take out the amplifier in the attic, and the splitter at the TiVo for the MoCA, and just run directly from the antenna to the TiVo, with nothing else inbetween. That's your baseline for your OTA signal. Then you can proceed forward from there. The point of the direct line is to not have any splitters or amplifiers off of the antenna at all.

    What's interesting is that some people on Amazon claim that the 3418 is MoCA compatible, so it may actually work after all.
     

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