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Romio OTA MoCa settup with router and romio in same room

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by Ntbrown, May 14, 2018 at 12:31 PM.

  1. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    First, please forgive me if the help I need is buried somewhere else but I have been on the forum for two hours and can't find it. I am in need of step by step instructions (I am an older woman, widow, and am not good at this stuff) on how to install the Moca adapter as it relates to the antenna coming in, the modem/router, and the romio OTA Vox. The TiVo and modem/router are right next to each other in the living room. The instructions that came with romio and the moca adapter were not very helpful to me. I have 3 older minis I want to use once this is all set up. (I pulled the plug on cable just last week, bought an attic antenna that is now connected to the existing coax wiring to all rooms. The romio is working fine directly connected with no moca yet.) And please be patient with me. :)
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Missed your post until now; will post back later, this evening, if still unresolved.

    Feel free to reply to let us know if you still need help.
     
  3. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    Still unresolved. Thank you.
     
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  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    More details on how the antenna signal specifically routes to the DVR location and the rest of your rooms, and how your Internet signal routes to the cable(?) modem would be useful in ironing-out your setup. That your DVR-only setup currently works indicates that you likely have a dedicated coax run for your modem, or a non-cable Internet connection. (OTA antenna and cable Internet signals cannot share a coax line.)

    ASSUMING you have a dedicated coax line to your cable modem, keeping your Internet signal separate from your antenna-connected coax plant, you should be able to use a MoCA-compatible 2-way splitter* at the DVR location to connect both the DVR and MoCA adapter to your antenna-connected coax plant, distributing the MoCA signal to your other rooms. Both the MoCA adapter and Roamio OTA VOX would also need to be connected via Ethernet to LAN ports on your router.

    You'd also need a "PoE" MoCA filter installed on the input of the initial splitter distributing your antenna signal, to prevent the MoCA signals from reaching and emanating from the antenna, and to provide a more efficient reflection of MoCA signals back onto the coax plant. >See here< for more info on the "PoE" MoCA filter. (edit: Still assuming an isolated/dedicated connection for the cable modem, a “PoE” MoCA filter would not be required for the cable provider connection, since no MoCA signals would be present on that line.)

    What model MoCA adapter did you buy?

    I'll check back in later.

    ——
    edit: * p.s. Any 1 GHz (1000 MHz) cable-rated splitter would do, for a start, if you have one handy; a MoCA-compatible model can be acquired as needed.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018 at 8:29 PM
  5. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    The cable company applied a moca filter to the line coming into the house, which of course is now only internet. You said add a moca filter at the initial input of initial splitter distributing antenna signal (I have a few of these in a drawer, luckily.) Is that attached to the antennae line before of after the added amplifier coming from the antenna? Note, all of this is in the attic and modem and TiVo are one floor below attic in the living room.

    I have the TiVo moca adapter.

    I have a person coming tomorrow morning to run a dedicated line from antenna to TiVo/modem router setup to keep it separate from internet cable. Seems simplest thing to do to me.

    Thank you so much for walking me through this. I am still confused on what all this connection looks like at the TiVo/modem router as it relates to the splitter and moca adapter. Lots of wires and I don’t know what goes where to connect it all. Thank you so much again for your help.
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    My typical recommendation would be that you try to produce a diagram of your setup (however rough), to help visualize the coax runs available, how devices and rooms connect to each other and the incoming signal(s), and how devices connect to the network. See the following for a few examples, for inspiration...

    MoCA_diagram_eg1.jpg Antenna attic MoCA.png OTA MoCA example.png
     
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The basic idea of MoCA (as it applies to TiVos) is that MoCA signals can share a coax run with either OTA antenna signals or cable TV/Internet signals, or exist alone. The main roadblock in a setup involving both OTA and cable Internet is that the OTA antenna and cable signals CANNOT share a coax run.

    That said, exactly how you'd connect your devices depends on how your rooms interconnect via coax, and to your signal sources.

    But I'm curious Re: this earlier comment...
    If the Roamio is already working fine, this tells me that your OTA antenna and cable Internet signals are currently not interfering with each other. How many coax outlets/connection do you have available in the Roamio/modem room?

    That said, a direct coax run from the antenna to the Roamio OTA location would provide the added benefit of ensuring the best possible signal delivered to the DVR.
     
  8. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    Thank you again for your help. Attached is a diagram and also a pic of the wiring at the TiVo with notations in red. In TiVo settings, I go to network settings, change settings, but moca is not a listed option. I rebooted router and the TiVo just in case, but no luck. I am at a loss.
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The Roamio OTA VOX is connecting to your router via Ethernet and will be configured as an Ethernet client; it won't ever know anything about the existence of a MoCA network on your coax lines. Also, a Roamio OTA has no built-in MoCA functionality, and so would never have a MoCA network configuration option.

    The MoCA network will be for the Minis, and you *will* find a "MoCA :: Set up as client" network configuration option in each of your Minis, when the time comes. (A TiVo Whole Home setup can be all MoCA, all Ethernet or a mix of both.)

    So step 1 is just making sure that the Roamio is properly networking (TiVo service connection, Internet streaming app access) and able to tune expected content from your OTA antenna signal.

    Step 2 is establishing the MoCA network via the TiVo Bridge. (more on that in a minute)

    ----
    But, first, about your diagram and pic... The pic of Roamio & TiVo Bridge connections in the Living Room looks good/correct, as does the diagram, with a few notes/questions:
    • You'd want to move the "PoE" MoCA filter to the input of the 4-way(?) splitter in the Attic, to improve its performance benefit.

    • Can you report the brand & model # of the Attic's 4-way splitter? (I'm curious as to its MoCA compatibility.)

    • Is the antenna receiving power? If so, from where? (I'm wondering if the 4-way spltter configuration can be altered to improve signal quality, and so would need to know where the power to the antenna is originating.)
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018 at 2:08 PM
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Re: getting the Minis connected via coax/MoCA, I'd recommend testing at least one Mini at the Living Room location, per the test procedure below, before trying any at their permanent home.

    The Ethernet and MoCA tests detailed in the following post should give you confidence in the basic MoCA functionality of the TiVo Bridge and Minis, and make an argument for any issues encountered when connecting a Mini at its permanent location being due to the coax plant between the TiVo Bridge and remote coax location (and not something awry within either device).

     
  11. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    You wrote this:
    So step 1 is just making sure that the Roamio is properly networking (TiVo service connection, Internet streaming app access) and able to tune expected content from your OTA antenna signal.
    YES TO ALL.

    Now to your bullets:

    Bullet 1:
    Ok. I was under the impression the Poe moca filter is placed at the antenna end, not the splitter end of the coax. I’ll have to move that.

    Bullet 2:
    It is a ChannelMaster. Images of the front and back of box are attached. It does NOT specifically say MOCA. But I had no idea it had to be since I was adding the TiVo bridge for the moca.

    Bullet 3: I’m not sure how the antenna gets power. Only coax comes off of it. There is a power cord going to the attic splitter because it is also an amplifier. I’ll send pic of box.

    As suggested by someone else. I tested the TiVo mini just in case, but no luck. Also attached pic of error screen.

    I did not realize the TiVo ota vox would not display the network setting option of Ethernet+moca, which is what I am used to on the Romio Plus I was using when I had cable. My bad.

    And how do I know if the moca network settings to make sure the correct info is entered on the mini if I can't see it on the romio ota cox?

    Having said this, and all the other messages you and I have shared, am I wrong to say IT SHOULD NOT TAKE THIS LONG (I am talking days here!) to set up what the TiVo site says is such a great thing and so simple to do. I may not be technically inclined for this task, but I'm not stupid. The Tivo site gives better info and diagrams for all products except the Romio OTA Vox. And, if they want to sell the mini vox, why didn't they include the moca with the romio ota vox? We all surely pay enough for it.

    Again, thank you so much for all of your help. I would not have gotten this far without you.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018 at 4:11 PM
  12. snerd

    snerd Member

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    That may be the problem -- the amplifier mignt not be MoCA compatible, so please note the make/model number when you move the PoE filter.
     
  13. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    forgot the images.

    In all the research I have done in the past week, I don't think I read anything saying the splitter had to have a moca something to work. I think it did mention it for the two way splitter attached to the TiVo adapter, but never the splitter for in the attic at the antenna. Good grief.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Did you try the direct-connect test of the Mini by connecting it directly to the MoCA adapter, per the quoted post >above<? Or do you mean you tested a Mini at its intended remote location?
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    It's just a matter of the connecting coax components allowing MoCA signals to pass with minimal interference. Some devices, such as older splitters and amplifiers can be problematic. But I think you're almost there.


    Moving the "PoE" MoCA filter is not the critical issue with your setup, but the ideal location is on the input of wherever the signal initially splits to the various coax runs ... to minimize the size of the MoCA network. (This may be too technical but see this slide on the performance benefit of the "PoE" MoCA filter.)

    Ah, the 4-way is an amplifier, boosting the antenna's signal, so that's the powered device I was looking for. (i.e. The antenna doesn't have a built-in amplifier/booster, so it requires no power; power *is* required a bit downstream at the amplifier, and is supplied via a power cord connected to the amp.)

    Your MoCA network *is* established by the TiVo Bridge, but your coax plant needs to at least not be hostile to MoCA ... and some splitters and amps can be downright rude to MoCA passers-by. ;)

    'Auto' for channel should do the trick, but this is part of the intent of the direct-connect test, to demonstrate that the Minis are able to connect to the TiVo Bridge via MoCA with the rest of the house's coax out of the equation.
     
  16. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    I did it in the intended location. I will try it at the Tivo adapter. I’ll let you know tomorrow. I so appreciate your help.
     
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  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    @Ntbrown, a quick question... You haven't provided any connection details for the rooms in which the Minis will be placed, so I'm curious ... is the plan to strictly use the Minis for viewing any OTA antenna content (tuned by the DVR, and streamed to the Minis via the home network), or were you also looking to feed the OTA antenna signal directly into your TVs as a live TV backup for the TiVo whole home setup? (Some users prefer this backup option; some, like me, rely strictly on the TiVo devices for content.)
     
  18. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    Strictly for the minis to access the Roamio OTA vox. FYI: I use a fire stick for streaming via WiFi.
     
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  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Can you read the model number off the front of that box? (The image is too low resolution for me to make it out, not having access to that NCIS software that let's you clarify a license plate number from 2 pixels.)

    (The current suspect ... Product Sheet ... Installation Notes)


    edit: p.s. It's an 8-port amp, but you only detail 4 coax runs in your diagram. Are there other coax runs not mentioned, or do you only have the 4 coax runs, so a 4-port amp would suffice? (Curious, to scope researching alternatives.)
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018 at 5:36 PM
  20. Ntbrown

    Ntbrown New Member

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    The number is CM-3418. 8 port amplifier.
     
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