Roamio Premium not recording?

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by bfollowell, Mar 2, 2020.

  1. Mar 2, 2020 #1 of 35
    bfollowell

    bfollowell Member

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    I have a Roamio Premium that has just started getting really flakey as far as recording shows. I have OnePasses setup for Forensic Files II, The Walking Dead, and The Talking Dead on Sunday evenings. A couple of these air at the same time, and I cushion the beginning and ends of the shows by two minutes, so I know there is a little overlap, but with six tuners, that shouldn't be a problem. I'm starting to get a few shows built up, but still have 56% of my hard drive available. I really can't think of any legitimate reason that these shows aren't recording. After the first week that they messed up, I really paid attention last night. As late as a half-hour before the recordings were supposed to start, they were all still showing up on my To Do list, but I wake up this morning and I have nothing new waiting for me.

    I know there's a spot I can go that will show conflicts and reasons that shows didn't record, but I can't recall where that is.

    Any ideas why my Tivo may have stopped recording and where I can go to look for reasons?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Mar 2, 2020 #2 of 35
    JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    It's a Plus, not a Premium. Any information in the History folder?
     
  3. Mar 2, 2020 #3 of 35
    bfollowell

    bfollowell Member

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    That's it! I didn't think Premium was right, but I knew it wasn't the basic model or the Pro, so Premium seemed like a good median.

    Thanks for the History. I missed that in the menu and I couldn't recall what that section was called. I'll go check.

    OK, so, it looks like maybe my shows did record. At least some of them. So, The Walking Dead and Talking Dead both show Deleted. History says space needed. All of my One Passes are setup to keep all recordings until I delete and I'm at 44% of what I believe is a 1TB hard drive, so space shouldn't be a problem right now, at least for a couple of episodes. Once I saw deleted for space, I thought, hey, I'll just go undelete them long enough for me to watch them. I know I have plenty of space. I was surprised though that these episodes don't show up in my recently deleted episodes list. I guess that's only for things I delete, not for things Tivo deletes on its own.

    As far as the Forensic Files II episodes, those show Duplicate, so I'm assuming they didn't record because the Tivo thought they were duplicates that had already aired. My One Passes are also setup to only record new episodes, not all episodes. I looked at the descriptions. Even though these were new episodes, with different descriptions and different episode numbers and air dates, my Tivo thought they were duplicates, so I don't know what it was keying off of to determine that they were duplicates. I know, with most shows that I record, if the Tivo picks up that a show is a duplicate, it just won't show up in my To Do list. My Tivo knows in advance that it isn't going to record that episode. I guess I'm confused as to why, as soon as a half-hour before the start of a show, my To Do list would show that an episode is going to record, then it doesn't because Tivo says it's a duplicate.

    So, I'm confused.
     
  4. Mar 2, 2020 #4 of 35
    tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    I have seen this before. Look at more detailed info, when it says it was "deleted". For me it was one minute BEFORE it was supposed to record, ie it "deleted" a show that had not even recorded yet............... (in other words it really didn't record I think) I also pad my recordings by a minute (you do two?). And sometimes it will be recording the same channel on at least two tuners because of this. By the way are you the original owner of this Tivo, do you know if it is the original hard drive? And are you running the classic interface, TE3, or Hydra/TE4? TE3 for me on the machines with the issues.
     
  5. Mar 2, 2020 #5 of 35
    bfollowell

    bfollowell Member

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    Yes, I'm the original owner of this machine, and it is running on the original hard drive from 2014 and running the classic interface, as far as I know. I mean, it looks like the normal Tivo interface I've known for the past fifteen years or so and I haven't changed anything, at least not intentionally.
     
  6. Mar 2, 2020 #6 of 35
    tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    A test I would recommend for you. First of all check what I said, see if the "deleted" shows were not recorded at all, ie in detailed history see if they were "deleted" a minute before they were supposed to record. Also check if the non recorded shows would have been on a channel that was currently recording, ie it would have been recording the same channel on at least two tuners.

    As for the test, make sure all 6 tuners are on different channels. Then setup a bunch of overlapping (ie with a minute or two padding on the end) recordings that will be on the same channel. See if the issue happens again. The next part of the test would be to try the same thing WITHOUT any padding on the end of the recordings, ie it could record the same channel on just one tuner.

    Am trying to isolate what was/is causing this problem. I am using upgraded drives so thought it might be something with the upgrade process. And my drives are pretty full but not enough where anything should/would be "deleted for space". Very interesting to know if you are on TE3 or TE4, as I said I am on TE3. Also this issue was on OTA for me, yours is cable? Perhaps can narrow this down, already it seems was not OTA issue for me since you are using cable, if you have stock drive then probably not my upgraded drives. May end up being something with TE3 OS, they don't really support it anymore but they have made a few changes, perhaps those changes are causing this problem................

    You may end up wanting to setup your recordings with no padding, I have done that with a few of my Tivos. Do not think I have had the issue with those.
     
  7. Mar 2, 2020 #7 of 35
    tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    Go to the "history" screen again, check the shows that had issues individually and hit the "info" button for each, should give you more detailed information.
     
  8. Mar 2, 2020 #8 of 35
    dianebrat

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    It's the OP/SPs set to KUID that are most likely doing it, when there's incomplete show metadata it will assume all of them are going to be new and need space so it starts clearing them in advance.
    There's really no reason to set it them that way since they almost never get deleted even when it's not set to KUID, in 2 decades of Tivo use at times with 60%+ full drives I have never used KUID and never had a show deleted by the unit.

    If you're TE3 and also have suggestions that has also been known to clear out the "recently deleted" folder at a quick pace.
     
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  9. Mar 2, 2020 #9 of 35
    tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    That is interesting also, I think my issues could have been with shows that were set keep until I delete. I do this with many old series I want to make sure do not get deleted as my Tivos do end up getting nearly full sometimes. Some have hundreds of episodes and it can literally take years to get all for some series. With the OP being at only 56% full I would think it would take a LOT of scheduled shows to cause the problem but who knows, I'm not the programmer ;) I remember having the issues once when a series was having a marathon, like 30-40 episodes back to back. Less than 1GB per recording but the some of the ones near the end of the marathon had the issue, deleted for space error but they never actually recorded.
     
  10. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    I guess the thing to try for me would be setup all shows to record without KUID. Then after they actually record I could go in and change the ones I want to KUID. Other errors I was getting at the same time were "unable to acquire tuner" and "unknown error" along with the "deleted for space" which actually just got cancelled, did not record. For me there were plenty of shows in the recently deleted folder and plenty of shows in my now playing list that were not KUID. So there should have been plenty of space. And there was nothing in "to do" list that said shows would not record because of space issue. So if true it would be a bug IMO, if something will not record because of space it should show in the to do list, not just can the recording a minute before it is supposed to record.
     
  11. bfollowell

    bfollowell Member

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    OK, I hear what you guys are saying about my settings, and about two or more tuners recording the same channel, they are. My concern is, why, after five years, has this suddenly changed? This is the way I've used my Tivo for five years and it has never once been an issue. I always pad my shows by two minutes on either end, even if they're back-to-back shows on the same channel. I've never had an issue with them not recording. Also, I've always had my recordings set for KUID. It's never been an issue like it has suddenly become.

    I check for detail on the recordings. So, for Forensic Files II, it looks like it did record, because it should've recorded from 8:58pm until 9:32pm, and it was deleted at 10:03pm. The second episode should've recorded on the same channel, from 9:28pm until 10:02pm, but it was deleted at at 9:26am thins morning. I should mention that, when I saw this time listed, I did a double-take because it was only 9:05am. As far as Talking Dead, it should've recorded from 10:15pm to 11:19pm and it shows deleted at 12:31am. The Walking Dead should've recorded from 7:58pm to 9:02pm, and it deleted at 5:00am. None of these shows show up anywhere in my recently deleted shows. All of these show deleted to make room for more recordings, none of which showed up on my To Do list, because they would've been duplicates and I only record new shows.

    The episodes that I had an issue with saying they were duplicates had correct metadata as far as I could see. They didn't have the generic show description I sometimes see for some shows. Each episode had a specific synopsis, original air date, and episode number. I have no idea what Tivo keys off of, but everything I could see told me that these were different and new, never-aired-before episodes.

    As far as the interface, I had no idea what you guys were referring to by TE3 & 4, then I realized it was Tivo Experience. Anyway, I checked and my Tivo is v20.7.blah.blah.blah, and Googling tells me that is TE3.

    Also, yes, I have the cable version of the Tivo Plus.
     
  12. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    That's not logical. TE3 doesn't support TiVo Plus. Current TE3 is 20.7.4b.RC3 and has been that way (except for the "b") for almost two years.

    I never use KUID, and have had a physically full drive several times in 2019.
     
  13. bfollowell

    bfollowell Member

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    I'm sorry. I meant the cable version of the Roamio Plus, and my unit is 20.7.4b.RC3, which equates to TE3.

    As far as you never using KUID, I don't see that as relevant. This is how I've always setup my OnePasses, and it's worked flawlessly for five years. Needed or not, it's never caused a problem. The way I see it, the only problem it would ever cause, is having a show not record because I had too much space taken up and Tivo couldn't delete anything, which is how I want it to behave. I never want my Tivo to delete anything. I delete things when I'm done with them. I, not my Tivo am in the driver's seat. That being said, since I have 56% of my drive remaining, how I have Keep Until set shouldn't have any bearing on my current issue, unless there is something else going on. What am I missing?
     
  14. dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

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    KUID has been known to do this at times, over time this has been the most frequent cause of this behavior, choose to listen or not.
     
  15. bfollowell

    bfollowell Member

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    OK, I really can't understand why. It makes no sense at all to me. Still, it can't get much worse as I can't trust my Tivo to record anything now. It's just strange that this has all happened within the past week or two.

    I'll go in and modify my OnePasses and give it a try. I really don't have anything to lose at this point.

    I'm assuming, if the Tivo does delete something that I don't want it to, I can go into the recently deleted shows and restore it? Recently deleted shows should have the shows I delete as well as the ones the Tivo deletes, correct?

    For that matter, I see shows in my recently deleted shows list going back at least three years. I'm assuming if they're showing, I should be able to restore them, right? If space were really, needed, shouldn't those shows be cleared out to make space before a new show was deleted or not recorded? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me. I'm not trying be argumentative. I'm just trying to understand the totally illogical way my Tivo just seems to have started acting in the past couple of weeks.

    Thanks for the advice.
     
  16. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    Well I would not totally dismiss the KUID setting. Tivo no longer really supports TE3. But they have made a few changes. To be honest I don't think they test much of anything. They rely on user feedback to find out what is wrong with an update, and it happens a LOT. With TE3, if not MAJOR I am not sure they would even try to fix it...... Try to get the problem to occur again. Try the removing padding thing if you can duplicate the error with the padding on. You could TRY removing KUID from the season passes. Then when the shows record just go in and change the ones that are important to you to KUID. I don't know how Tivo calculates space that will be needed for a recording. In the "old days" a one hour recording could take up as much as 8-10GB. So maybe it just figures a one hour scheduled recording might need 10GB even though it might only be a couple GB or less. Even so it should not delete a new recording (or not record it) if there is any space left, recordings in recently deleted folder or older recordings in the now playing list. Could be TE3 bug because of non tested updates, could be a drive developing errors, could be something else, all can really do is test theories and see what happens.
     
  17. bfollowell

    bfollowell Member

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    I'll play with it, but the one thing I'm really reluctant to do is remove my two minute padding. I have found it very common, at least in the past, for shows to start early or run late, sometimes just by a matter of 15-30 seconds, but it's enough that it screws up my recording, hence the reason that I started adding padding. This is normal procedure for me and goes back at least 15 years to my original Series 2. It doesn't happen often now, but it does still happen on occasion. Heck, if I'm completely honest, this goes back to my old VCR recording days and probably goes back more like 30 years!

    I'll consider giving it a try though, just to test different combinations of options.

    I really don't think getting the problem to reproduce itself is going to be a problem. Last night was the second or third Sunday night that it happened with the same shows.
     
  18. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    Your drive is probably 5-6 years old. You MIGHT want to clone it to a new drive, should be able to get a new 1TB for $30-40, probably less if you shop around. You can check TC for models, you want a PMR not SMR drive, 1TB PMR should not be hard to find. Clone/copy (check TC for ways to copy/clone a Tivo drive), make sure the copy/clone works, then set aside the old drive as a backup maybe? You could also test it for errors once you have the new drive installed and working.
     
  19. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, just as a test to see if it solves the problem. I always added a minute at the end, and mostly keep until I delete also. Heck lately some shows I have to add a minute at the BEGINNING..................... Interesting yours seems to be the same day with the same shows. And probably the same channel recording on at least two tuners at the same time because of the padding. All can do is test different things.....
     
  20. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    The Recently Deleted Recordings is valuable since it will indicate a full drive. The space it uses is not in System Information. The files are "killed" or permanently deleted in the order they are placed into that folder, NOT by the age of the recording. IOW, the bottom program is the first to get killed. You will always start at the top when entering that folder, and it never remembers where you were when you exit. So there is no reason to scroll up then left. Just use left to exit. When your drive gets full, you should see programs being killed off. If a program can not be killed, which happens frequently, just perform a restart. It should then be able to be killed. I restart all my stuff monthly.

    I have 30 1P between two basic Roamio units. Only one program has padding at the end: The Daily Show. I used to pad programs. Then I actually watched to the end. I really don't care what will be on next week. Start trimming that padding. Except Comedy Central. :)
     

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