Roamio plus vs cable company dvr - PQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by davidg716, Jan 22, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jed1

    Jed1 Well-Known Member

    2,565
    440
    Jun 18, 2013
    Frackville, PA.

    Advertisements

    Diana,
    If you have Neil Cavuto on right now how does he look in the studio setting. His jacket should be solid black with no noise. The issue you are describing is not macro blocking but mosquito noise.
    The video from Shepard Smith was extremely poor as it was a live shot from Jordan. That feed looks like very poorly up converted SD.
     
  2. CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

    2,620
    3
    Jan 13, 2005
    SoCal
    When thinking about picture quality people also need to remember that on many TV sets, the picture quality settings are set on a per input basis. That is done so that you can dial in good settings for different input devices. So comparing an HDMI input to a TV internal Tuner input, you very likely will see differences due to them not having the same brightness, contrast, color and sharpness settings. If you dial each in to get the best most accurate picture possible, they will then most likely look identical.
     
  3. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    20,329
    3,777
    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    I agree for the most part. I've calibrated mine (Sony) with the settings on "common", which means all inputs are treated the same, even the tuner. However, even with the same cable signal from, say CBS, when I use the tuner it looks a little better than the TiVo. To be fair, I let the TV take the tuner's 1080i and show it in 1080p. The TiVo is set to output 1080p. What is not clear, and will remain a mystery, is that some settings are still set to "auto". I can't predict the result of auto when it is working with the tuner compared to working with the TiVo. They should be the same, but "should" isn't saying "always". There's room for debate and we've seen that here. I just feel that you can never compare the tuner to the HDMI without test equipment I can't afford. Please note my cable CBS 1080i feed is on the same frequency as the cable signal that is fed to the TiVo. I still have clear QAM for a few weeks. You could also say that I'm comparing the scalar chip of the TiVo to that of the TV. It would be true also.
     
  4. Roveer

    Roveer Member

    135
    6
    May 27, 2003
    I'm going to set DVR Recording of Fox and Al Jazera on both Tivo and my office Verizon STB and then I'll do a comparison. Different types of TV's which will give me different results but let's see what happens.

    I'll take a look at the Tivo resolution settings and try some variations there as well.

    Roveer
     
  5. CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

    2,620
    3
    Jan 13, 2005
    SoCal

    Advertisements

    Cable is still compressing the signal differently than the OTA broadcast, so you stall don't have apple to apples. I guess the only way to know for sure would be use a Romio OTA so both are getting the exact same signal to begin with.
     
  6. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    20,329
    3,777
    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    I don't understand. I was comparing the exact same signal. I was just noting that the TV has too many unknowns to be fair. I'm happy with the TiVo. I think I mentioned I have clear QAM (for the tuner). It's the same feed as that used by the Roamio with its cable card. Even has the same SNR.

    I wish I had OTA but that's not going to happen in my location.
     
  7. CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

    2,620
    3
    Jan 13, 2005
    SoCal
    Doh, I misread.
     
  8. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    20,329
    3,777
    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    No problem. I mistype all the time. It is sad that I get CBS and ABC on one 6Mhz channel. I get CW and Fox on another, and NBC and a different CW on another. My rate is about 16Mbs on CBS and NBC and less for Fox, much less for ABC. Compression is a way of life. I get the regular cable stuff in HD, like msnbc and CNN but they come through on SD for clear QAM. I will miss them when clear QAM goes away since there are times when I would rather watch via the tuner because I can set the sleep timer. I'm old but watch cable news during the week. Weekends are for recordings of prime time. It's not much of a life but I like it. Like the TiVo, my up front costs were high but it's real cheap now.
     
  9. Roveer

    Roveer Member

    135
    6
    May 27, 2003
    So I have a question after looking at my video settings on both my Roamio and Mini.

    I can say I didn't really understand the whole multiple resolutions thing under video. I basically just disabled all except the native resolution that the TV it was connected to was capable of. Examples:

    My Kitchen TV is a 24" Sharp. It's native resolution is 720p so I set the Mini to only allow 720p.

    In my family Room I have a 65" Samsung. It's native resolution is 1080p so I set the Roamio to 1080p.

    So here's my question: By doing this does it mean when I hit a channel that does not match the native resolution of the TV that the Tivo Scaler has to start processing the signal? Is that a bad thing?

    Then I ran the video resolution setup on both TV's.

    On the Kitchen Sharp it put 480i, 480p, 720p & 1080i
    On the Family Room Samsung it put 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i 60fps & 1080p pass-thu.

    I notice when I go to say Fox news which is broadcast in 720p that the TV changes resolution (taking an extra 2-3 seconds) and if I change down 2 channels to OAN or AlJazera which is broadcast in 1080i the TV's resolution switches again.

    Does this mean that it is not using and scaling/processing from the Roamio or Mini? Does this just push the scaling responsibilities to the TV (and take an annoying 2-3 seconds longer to do the resolution change)?

    Is this optimal? It is annoying as it adds several seconds before it displays any video and makes for poor channel surfing.

    Roveer
     
  10. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

    5,275
    18
    May 14, 2007
    Paradise...
    It is all predicated on which device has the better video scalar/processor in it. The only thing you can do is test each resolution and refresh rate into each TV and then just select the native resolution so the TiVo does all the scaling and compare which gives the best image, motion, etc. You really should at least do a basic user calibration using something like a DVD or bluray test disc first on each input of each display you'll be using first.

    If it turns out the TV has the better scalar, then you have to decide if the increase in image quality is worth the extra time it takes to sync to each resolution of the various channels, as you've experienced.
     
  11. CinciDVR

    CinciDVR Contentious Member

    170
    47
    May 24, 2014
    Cincinnati, OH
    I don't think your TV screen to PC screen comparison is an apples to apples comparison. The video you shot of your TV screen is zoomed in considerably compared to what would be shown on your computer screen. When I change the zoom level to about 25% while playing your video of the Tivo output (or zoom in to about 400% when playing the file you downloaded to your computer), so that both videos are about the same relative size on my computer screen, they begin to look very similar with regards to macro blocking. I'll admit that the Tivo output video still exhibits more noise, but that could be a result of the video processing done by the device that you used to record the Tivo output from your TV screen.

    On the other hand, the file you downloaded to your computer uses the H264-MPEG-4 AVC codec and has a resolution of 640x360. So to display it at 1080i /1080p resolution, it has to be scaled by 300%. That does open up the possibility that one device may be better at scaling than another. It would be interesting to hear your comparison of the PQ when you let the Tivo handle the scaling versus having your TV do the scaling.
     
  12. CinciDVR

    CinciDVR Contentious Member

    170
    47
    May 24, 2014
    Cincinnati, OH
    Yep. That's exactly what it means.

    As others have said, it depends on whether you think your TV does a better job of scaling than the Tivo. If you think it does, then you have to decide whether that extra PQ quality is worth the extra 2-3 seconds when changing channels. In theory, your TV should do the best job of scaling since the TV designers know it's capabilities intimately, but in practice that's not always the case.
     
  13. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    20,329
    3,777
    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    That's how mine is set. I agree 100% with the previous posts. Another way to look at this: can you tell the difference? If not, use the TV's native resolution. And that 2 second change with black screen would drive me nuts.
     
  14. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    7,434
    829
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    That's pretty much the essence of it. Everything the consumer sees is compressed, it's just a matter of how good the compression is. DirecTV uses MPEG-4, and MPEG-4 generally does a much better job of hiding the artifacts and making them small enough that you don't really notice them.

    Exactly. The TiVo should ouput native.

    Look at the viewership of Fox. A bunch of crazy paranoid old people who aren't going to notice the difference anyway, so why bother trying to make it look good? ESPN or HBO would be a better test channel, as they will generally have much better bitrates. The local channels are hit or miss, as it's market by market on any provider.

    TiVos should generally be set for native output, unless there's some quirk specific to the TV. Channel surfing is a thing of the past for TiVo users, so that's a non-issue. I have mine sending native output to my video processor, which sends 1080p to my TV, and the unlock/re-lock process for HDMI takes several seconds at best, which is fine.

    That's just part of the HD world we live in with 1080i and 720p. It's not like you see it that often anyway. I suppose if there are two games on, one of a 720p channel, one on a 1080i, you could end up flipping back and forth, but it's just not that big of an annoyance to have something like a 5 second black screen like my system has. I get the best picture quality possible from my crappy Comcast service as a result.
     
  15. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    20,329
    3,777
    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    Now, some of my relatives watch Fox. :D
     
  16. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

    5,275
    18
    May 14, 2007
    Paradise...
    I watch Fox, and damned proud of it! Certainly better than the alternative ostriches with their heads buried deep in the sand and the mindless heard that follows them.......and the sheeple say, Baaaaaaaaaaa!
     
  17. h2oskierc

    h2oskierc I'm a 2-Tuner

    281
    0
    Dec 16, 2010
    Minnesnowta
    :up:
     
  18. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    7,434
    829
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    I know of one who would watch it if he watched cable news. Most of my relatives are much smarter than that!

    How can anyone watch that channel without their blood boiling over from the utter garbage that they spew on that channel? Maybe some people can laugh at how stupid the hosts are or something?
     
  19. heifer624

    heifer624 Member

    242
    4
    Jul 12, 2009
    Florida's...
    Enlighten us on what utter garbage they spew in your opine?
     
  20. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

    5,275
    18
    May 14, 2007
    Paradise...
    They've said the same things back before both World Wars, as most of the world's sheeple sat around in utter disbelief and ignorance until it slapped them square in the face! Can you say pre-Pearl Harbor, pre-9/11?

    Do we already forget 9/11??? Those people want to dominate and slaughter the infidels, of which 99% of this forum most likely is, including you I am sure.

    Fox seems to be the ONLY major news outlet passionate enough to scream the truth at the top of their lungs, regardless of what others may think. Every other outlet bows down like sheep to the slaughter, the almighty dollar and the ratings!

    There are fundamental and absolute truths in this universe that don't give a rat's arse what some snot nosed ignorant fool thinks is the way it "should" be. If history has done ANYTHING, it's been to teach us stupid humans THAT fact! Which we NEVER learn from, I might add :rolleyes:

    This is the last I am saying in this as it is far off topic for the thread and this forum.

    God Bless! <><
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements