Roamio Fios Ethernet + MOCA Configuration?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by qtrchickendark, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. qtrchickendark

    qtrchickendark New Member

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    Jan 26, 2010
    For the past 4 years my setup has been a Roamio Plus (with cable card) and 2 minis on separate floors, connected via MOCA. I'm using the Verizon Quantum Gateway router connected via coax, not ethernet. The Roamio is also connected via coax and is setup for MOCA with the Roamio and minis getting their IP addresses via MOCA. Wifi on the Verizon router is disabled and I'm using a Google wifi router configured as an AP.

    I now want to use my own router (as well another Google Wifi puck) to allow for more flexibility and control over my network. From what I've read here and on DSL Forums, the first step is to switch the WAN connection from the ONT from coax to ethernet. I've already run and tested a Cat 5 cable from the ONT to the location where I intend to place my own router (same place where the VZ router is currently located). But before calling Verizon to request the switch, I'd like to get your advice on whether my proposed setup will work.

    Since the Roamio still needs coax to get video, I assume I will still need a coax feed from the ONT to the Roamio (no different to how it is now). After replacing the Verizon router with mine, I'd like to continue using MOCA to connect the Roamio to the minis (there is no ethernet between the Roamio and the minis). Connecting the ethernet port of the Roamio to the LAN side of my router, will the Roamio provide a path via MOCA to supply IP addresses to the 2 minis?

    The diagram below shows my proposed configuration. Would appreciate your input whether this setup will work, or any changes that need to be made for it to work.

    New_Tivo_Setup.png

    Thanks.
     
  2. martzta

    martzta New Member

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    Your proposed setup should work fine. Mine looks the same except for the ethernet switch between the router and Roamio and that shouldn't matter. Verizon normally uses ethernet from the ONT for higher speeds and I think they can make the switch remotely but it probably depends on which ONT you have.
     
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    As diagrammed that should work, though you’d benefit from a “PoE” MoCA filter on the input of the 3-way splitter feeding the TiVo boxes (for a MoCA performance benefit, rather than security).

    Alternatively, you could keep *everything* as-is on your coax plant and just reconfigure the Quantum Gateway to function only as a MoCA LAN Bridge — once you have the third-party router setup as your main router. (Or use a dedicated MoCA adapter as your main MoCA bridge, rather than the G1100 or Roamio.)

    edit: p.s. Some prefer to use a stand-alone MoCA adapter as their bridge to avoid connectivity outages if/when the TiVo DVR reboots. The DVR MoCA bridge *can* save money, though you have the G1100 in-hand and a WCB3000N (with bridge throughput equivalent to the Roamio Plus) can be had for $17 via Amazon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  4. martzta

    martzta New Member

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    Forgot to mention my roamio pro and now Bolt provide the MOCA. Not sure about the roamio plus.
     
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Roamio Plus and Pro are identical boxes aside from the stock hard drive capacity.
     
  6. qtrchickendark

    qtrchickendark New Member

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    Jan 26, 2010
    I really appreciate the quick responses and the recommendation to add a PoE filter.

    I haven't had any instances of the Roamio rebooting, apart from a loss of power. And assuming it did for some other reason, wouldn't the only affected devices be the Roamio and the minis?

    For setup simplicity, I'd prefer not to reconfigure the G1100 to be a MoCA LAN bridge or get a WCB3000N. (When Verizon swapped out a dead ONT power supply 2 years ago, I asked the tech for and got an ECB2200, brand new in the box. I also still have my old MI424WR). Assuming I used any one of these (G1100 or MI424WR reconfigured as a bridge or ECB2200), where would it be placed?

    With this configuration, can the minis still be configured to get their IP addresses via DHCP or would I have to configure a static IP for each one? They now use DHCP to get an assigned IP address configured in the G1100 DHCP pool. I intend to replicate these static assignments in the Google Wifi router.

    Question: Is this a good quality PoE filter? Or would this be a better option?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yes, assuming you were using MoCA only for your TiVo boxes and not to extend wired networking to any other locations.

    Yes, the Mini traffic will just be passing through a different MoCA/Ethernet bridge to communicate with the router (DHCP server).

    Wherever it could be connected to the shared coax plant and to the Ethernet LAN. (Note that the recommended “PoE” MoCA filter would likely NOT be installed on the 3-way splitter’s input if you used a stand-alone MoCA bridge. Optimal placement would depend on how the MoCA bridge’s coax run connects to the runs to the TiVo boxes.)

    The Holland filter would be my choice between the two.
     
  8. amyf

    amyf Member

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    I did this a long time ago (I believe I followed the instructions for Option 7 from DSLReports). Verizon was able to change my connection from coax to ethernet while I was on the phone with them. The trick is to make sure they make the change permanent - otherwise you revert back to coax after a power outage (been there, done that). Other than that one issue, its been working very nicely. I use the Quantum Gateway to create the MOCA network (it's wireless is turned off) and let my own router handle all of the DHCP and wireless traffic. The main difference between what I have and your diagram is that I have an ethernet connection (LAN to LAN) from my router to the gateway. This also allows me to use the other 3 ethernet ports on the gateway for wired devices (such as my IP phone from work). And the coax from the ONT goes to the gateway (since that's where the coax cable already went).

    Good luck
    Amy


     
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  9. qtrchickendark

    qtrchickendark New Member

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Thanks. So in your setup, is your WAN connection coax going directly into your G1100, which is configured as a bridge? And if so, does your personal router then gets its public IP via the G1100 (served from the head end, not the G1100)?

    My ethernet switch has enough ports to connect the Roamio and a few other wired devices so I won't need the extra ports that a LAN to LAN connection to the G1100 can provide.

    BTW, thanks to krkaufman for the PoE filter recommendation. I ordered it today and it should be delivered tomorrow. I'm planning to call Verizon this weekend to swap the WAN connection from coax to ethernet.
     
  10. amyf

    amyf Member

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    Sep 24, 2014
    Central NJ
    My personal router is connected directly to the ONT via its WAN port, so it gets the Verizon supplied IP address and then serves as the "main" router for the entire house. I think I mistyped the other day - the coax connected to the G1100 is only used for the MOCA network for the TiVos. It does not connect back to the ONT - like I said it's been a long time since I did this. The G1100 is essentially a wired AP. The WAN light is lit up red on the front of the G1100, but it means nothing in this configuration.

    The main reason I ended up doing this was that when I got FiOS, the Verizon supplied router was awful. I had to reboot it every week or two and Verizon couldn't (or wouldn't) supply a new router - if they replaced it, they sent whatever was picked off the shelf, so it might be newer and better, or older and even worse than what you started with. Now I only reboot my router when I update firmware, replace my router with a newer one, or on the rare occasions that we have network issues (almost always because FiOS is down).

    The instructions on DSLReports.com are really good and were easy to follow. I had to read them a few times until I absorbed it all, but the time invested was well worth it.
     
  11. qtrchickendark

    qtrchickendark New Member

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    A big thank you to everyone for your advice and sharing your experiences. Today, I successfully reconfigured my network, replacing the G1100 with my router. It took Verizon about 10 minutes to switch the WAN connection from MoCA to ethernet and get my router connected. After installing the PoE filter, I configured the Roamio to be a MoCA bridge and connected it via ethernet to my network. Once the minis were rebooted they successfully connected to the Roamio.

    It was fairly straightforward and I wish I'd done it sooner. I kept the G1100 in case I need it to troubleshoot with Verizon in the future or decide to use it as a MoCA bridge instead of the Roamio.
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The “PoE” MoCA filter would likely need to be relocated if/when the Roamio Plus surrenders the MoCA bridging duties, depending on coax connectivity.
     
  13. skyline987

    skyline987 New Member

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    Don't waste your money if youre paying monthly for their router just to use it as a bridge. Grab yourself Actiontec ECB6200 moca bridge instead. I have one Verizon box in my house and the tech that installed my service swore that the data features on their box wouldn't work without their router and installed one. After he left I replaced their router with mine and hooked up the MoCa bridge and it's been working fine since.
     
  14. qtrchickendark

    qtrchickendark New Member

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    Jan 26, 2010
    So if I decide to use the G1100 as the MoCA bridge instead of the Roamio, I assume the Roamio would have to be configured as a MoCA client (see diagram), correct? In this configuration, the Roamio and minis would then get their IP addresses from the router via the G1100 MoCA bridge, correct?

    In this configuration, where should the PoE filter then be located?
    ont-setup2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  15. qtrchickendark

    qtrchickendark New Member

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    Jan 26, 2010
    I'll have to check my bill but I'm pretty sure when I negotiated my current package 18 months ago, Verizon threw in the G1100 to sweeten the deal as I was threatening to change providers. Thanks for the suggestion though. If I have to return the G1100, I still have the previous Actiontec MI424WR that I can be configured as a MoCA bridge.
     
  16. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    It's referenced several times in this thread, but I don't see a link, so I presume you've already looked at it, but for future reference in this thread:

    What are the tradeoffs between the various router configurations Verizon FiOS FAQ | DSLReports, ISP Information

    Nowhere. There should not be a MoCA filter in a Verizon FiOS setup. MoCA filters are primarily used for POE (Point Of Entry) on cable, so that MoCA doesn't get back-fed into the tap and end up crossed with a neighbor's MoCA network. Since FiOS generates the one-way RF signal at the ONT, then a POE filter is unnecessary, since there is no Point Of Entry to filter at. POE filters are also occasionally used for cable modems that were improperly designed and have some weird interference from MoCA signals, and in a similar application for TAs on SDV cable systems, as TAs are basically little modems just for changing channels on SDV. Cox is obsessed with the things and puts them all over the place on modems and TAs just in case there is an improperly designed one.

    Just don't plug Ethernet into both the G1100 and the Roamio, as you will end up with a loop in your network, which will cause the universe to implode. Or something like that. If the G1100 is the MoCA bridge, which is fine, then don't plug Ethernet into the Roamio.
     
  17. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    A MoCA filter is not needed on a Fios setup for security purposes, however, there is no reason to prohibit the use of the MoCA filter either and when one is properly installed, you get the benefit of the boost to the MoCA frequencies that come from using the filter.
     
  18. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    If it's properly placed, it probably won't do ANYTHING, if it's improperly placed it will break the MoCA network, and it's just one more connection in the system- so why? There is effectively no boost to the MoCA network on FiOS. You're only stopping the MoCA signal from getting to the ONT, which is usually within a short distance of the MoCA filter and main splitter anyway, so it's a completely negligible change. It can help on regular cable where the MoCA signal will go up to the tap and potentially into a neighbor's house, so you want to keep it in your own house. I had a MoCA network for a while with no POE filter, but that was an overdriven 550mhz system with a short drop, so it wasn't going much of anywhere. I would strongly recommend 1 MoCA filter on the demarc or main splitter on cable, and if needed on TAs. If you have an older modem that needs a MoCA filter to not act up, I'd replace the modem with something newer.
     
  19. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    I would simply say that as far as the local network is concerned, using the properly placed MoCA filter on Fios absolutely, positively does give a boost to the MoCA LAN signals. An improperly placed MoCA filter can break any MoCA network on any system so what is the point? The estimated signal loss with the insertion of a MoCA filter is from 1-3dB and most folks on Fios then to have a "hot" signal anyway.
    If you read through the MoCA literature, you will find references to the "reflective" quality of the MoCA filter and the resultant "boost" to the MoCA frequencies. Further, there are at least two RF engineers who have frequented these forums, one of whom described the analogy of a clothes line, first lying limp in the yard and watching a wave being introduced and then seeing the far end drop as the wave reached it and then compared it to the same setup except that the end line was then secured on a fence and then seeing the wave "reflect" back the wave as a comparison to the use of a MoCA filter.
    The second RF engineer took the time to correct one of my posts when I used the word "slight" boost to be more correct by saying the filter produces a "significant" boost.
    The only difference between the Fios ONT and a standard cable company is that because of the optical translation at the ONT, the locally introduced MoCA frequencies have no where to go, comparable to the clothes line left unattached in the yard.
    To sum up, MoCA filters do "reflect" and "boost" MoCA LAN frequencies and should absolutely be used on any standard cable system. Although not needed on Fios systems due to security concerns, the use of a filter will do no harm and you still get the benefit of the "reflective boost"
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Whether the performance benefit is *needed* depends on the complexity of the setup; in a more complex setup, the “PoE” MoCA filter may make the difference in the loss budget for some nodes, enabling connectivity — as has been seen in past TCF examples.

    In most all cases, the performance boost will allow the MoCA network to operate more efficiently, at lower power levels.
     

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