Rhapsody: Tivo Has Eliminated Us From Series 3 and 2

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by ohmark, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. Aug 13, 2011 #1 of 103
    ohmark

    ohmark Member

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    According to Rhapsody spokesman, Tivo has refused to update "firmware" for Series 3 and Series 2, rendering both permanently unusable for Rhapsody.

    "As far as the series 2 and 3 devices, Tivo has chosen not to update the firmware for those devices, meaning Rhapsody will no longer be accessible on them. This was a call that Tivo made, not us, and yeah, it sucks."
    http://forum.rhapsody.com/rhapsody/...tm_medium=email&utm_source=reply_notification Edited to add that you have to click on "View 6 more comments" about 3 or 4 posts from the bottom.

    As for Tivo, it has not said one word to its loyal customers as to this. Not one word!
     
  2. Aug 14, 2011 #2 of 103
    TolloNodre

    TolloNodre En Fuego

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    The quote you give is nowhere found in the link you provided AND there are responses from Tivo people so your 'not one word' complaint is plainly false.

    /As a side note, who knew Rhapsody was still around?
     
  3. Aug 14, 2011 #3 of 103
    ohmark

    ohmark Member

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    Sorry you couldn't find the quote, but it's there.
    Click on the link again. About 3 or 4 posts from the bottom, click on "View 6 more comments." There is the quote in all its gory detail. See?

    And, just as I said in my post above, Tivo has said not one word about Rhapsody being permanently discontinued on Series 3 and 2. Obviously, there is one post from TivoStephen as to the problem in general. But even he stated that Tivo was working on the solution, not working on discontinuing Rhapsody.

    Hopefully, somebody from Tivo will post that the Rhapsody rep was misinformed. [Edited to Add that, unfortunately, Tivo found it more in its corporate interest to eliminate Rhapsody on Tivo 2, Tivo 3, and Tivo HD, than to update its software to accomodate whatever software changes Rhapsody made. Tivo, for now, has continued Rhapsody support for the Premiere and only the Premiere.]
     
  4. Aug 14, 2011 #4 of 103
    socrplyr

    socrplyr Active Member

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    I would not be surprised by this. Development on those platforms is dead and has generally been so for a while. In reality Rhapsody has it backwards, they chose to change the way their service works and end the previous methods. I am sure Rhapsody could either develop a fix for the older Tivos or pay Tivo to do so, they choose not to. Rhapsody just wants something for free. It is a shame that they outright lied in the post laying the blame on Tivo. It is unfortunate for those who use the service.
     
  5. Aug 14, 2011 #5 of 103
    aadam101

    aadam101 Tell me a joke

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    Based on some of the postings, it seems that either Rhapsody dropped the ball or the device makers just didn't care enough to make the necessary changes. I don't think Rhapsody has a very large subscriber base. Tivo can't even get the bare basics finished these days. I wouldn't expect them to support older Tivo models based on their history.

    As unfortunate as this situation is for Rhapsody/S2/S3 owners, my suggestion is to find a different provider for your music. There is no shortage of them and plenty of ways to play music through your Tivo.

    I have to agree with the other poster. Who even knew Rhapsody was still around? Normally, I would be critical of Tivo for an issue like this but I think they did the right thing here. Slowly killing Rhapsody is a good move.
     
  6. Aug 15, 2011 #6 of 103
    windsurfdog

    windsurfdog Hoof Hearted?

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    "Who even knew Rhapsody was still around?" As a Rhapsody user for the last 5-6 years, I knew...but your point is VERY well taken. Outside of a media blitz they had a month or 2 ago, none of the device manufacturers are mentioning Rhapsody like they mention Napster, Pandora, et al.

    I've tried Napster and MOG and, to me, neither has as satisfying experience as Rhapsody. Yet Rhapsody appears to be losing market share...even to Pandora-like services that are but a subset of Napster/Rhapsody/Spotify/MOG-like services.

    Rhapsody seems to putting the noose to its own neck.
     
  7. Aug 15, 2011 #7 of 103
    DrewS3

    DrewS3 Member

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    The Rhapsody representative made a comment on that thread that if they did not make the change it would prevent Rhapsody from working on any home audio device. That sounds like it was a legal requirement they had to fulfull, possibly from thier split with Real Networks.

    Regardless, this episode just reenforces my opinion of Tivo as a company with terrible communication skills and no regard for their retail customers. Buyer beware.
     
  8. Aug 15, 2011 #8 of 103
    TheWGP

    TheWGP Hmmm...

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    +1 on all counts... it doesn't look there's much Rhapsody could have done, and it's just a business decision on Tivo's end. Frankly, Tivo has their hands full doing anything for Series 4 owners, let alone series 2/3. Not saying I like it, but that's the way it is.
     
  9. Aug 15, 2011 #9 of 103
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    I dumped Rhapsody years ago. They were overpriced, the app was badly bloated and completely unnecessary, and it was hard to manage and unnecessarily limited. It was a real dog turd of an app, and the service wasn't much better.

    That there might be patent issues between them and Real is entirely possible, but that is no excuse for implementing yet another proprietary protocol. Proprietary protocols are almost always the result of corporate greed, and if such maneuvering on their part winds up bankrupting them, then it is no more than they deserve.

    AS far as my music enjoyment is concerned, I either rip my CDs to .mp3 files or else purchase .mp3 files from on-line services and run Galleon to deliver to my TiVos.
     
  10. Aug 15, 2011 #10 of 103
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Bullcrap. What Rhapsody could have done, what they *SHOULD* have done, presuming they were forced into doing something, was to implement a standard, open source protocol.
     
  11. Aug 15, 2011 #11 of 103
    DrewS3

    DrewS3 Member

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    What difference would an open source protocol make? I doubt Tivo would implement a new protocol on the S2/S3/HD even if there was source code freely available.

    Rhapsody's licensing agreements with the music copyright holders probably require some sort of encrypted transfer or other specific implementation, like Netflix. It is hard to imagine it wouldn't, since Rhapsody gives much more complete access to an artist's work than the streaming radio services like Pandora.
     
  12. Aug 15, 2011 #12 of 103
    DrewS3

    DrewS3 Member

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    The service is pretty unique, and except for Napster and recently Spotify, I don't know of any other that offers unlimited access to such a large library of music. It doesn't seem hard to manage to me, and I have found a lot of new music through it. I quickly gave up on Tivo as a client though, so maybe your experience was worse for that.
     
  13. Aug 15, 2011 #13 of 103
    TiVoJerry

    TiVoJerry Caavo employee (Ex-TiVo, '00-'16)

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    I can confirm that an update is rolling out to Series4 boxes which will get Rhapsody up and running again. Unfortunately, due to recent technical limitations with the Rhapsody application Series3 and Series2 users will no longer have access to Rhapsody from their TiVo DVR. We apologize for the inconvenience.
     
  14. Aug 15, 2011 #14 of 103
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    First of all limiting the horizon to the interaction between a service like Rhapsody and any single platform like TiVo results in a narrow perspective. Such perspectives are rarely very productive, especially in the long run. Speaking WRT Tivo or any specific platform, however, open source protocols mean any developer can produce code that will interface the service with the hardware. Who cares if the hardware manufacturer implements anything, or not? Hardware manufacturers almost always produce lousy code.

    Because it is required to be encrypted and / or secure doesn't mean it can't be open source. Public key encryption, the strongest and most secure encryption ever developed and available to non-government entities is open source.

    Irrelevant. Making the content secure is in no way related to preventing 3rd party developers from producing applications. They just want to control licensing of the content *AND* the platforms used to access it along with the code employed by the platforms.
     
  15. Aug 15, 2011 #15 of 103
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    That it was. I haven't used it for years, and it is entirely possible it has changed much since then, but being unique is not in and of itself an advantage. Most of what it was designed to do was of no interext to me, and at $10 a month it was costing me a fair amount of money for nothing.

    It wasn't unlimited. I could not play it on my DVD players or in my car using a USB stick. It wouldn't work on the wireless media player I had, nor on my TiVo at the time. I don't even think there was a Linux version, at least not back then.

    No, that was not any real part of my decision. Actually, it was, but only in the sense that I did have applications that worked well with my TiVos as well as every other device I had. There was no content of interest to me available through the service that I had not already purchased either from Rhapsody or later through Amazon, and Amazon presented much less of a hassle.
     
  16. Aug 15, 2011 #16 of 103
    DrewS3

    DrewS3 Member

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    Well, we don't know what protocol Rhapsody is using. I don't anyway. Maybe it is an open source protocol. But I don't think it matters much to us, because I'm sure the intent of the copyright holders would be to prevent us from being able to decrypt the streams. They would want to enforce which devices could decrypt and which could not. Assuming it was an open source protocol and the decryption keys were baked into the device's software, how would that benefit us, the end users? We would still be dependant on Tivo to update thier software and unable to patch/proxy it ourselves.

    As for Rhapsody, it fits my listening habits pretty well. I listen almost exclusively at home or at work where a streaming connection is available, and I am always listening to new artists and albums. Sometimes I will buy them if they become a favorite, but the streaming is enough 95% of the time.
     
  17. Aug 15, 2011 #17 of 103
    ohmark

    ohmark Member

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    Inconvenient???? Are you serious? You have eliminated the sole reason I bought lifetime service for my Series 2, and a major reason I bought lifetime service for my Series 3

    Tivo Jerry, I want you to know that over the course of Tivo's lifetime, I bought an original series Tivo, a Sony Tivo, a Series 2, an HD Tivo, and a Tivo Premiere. I am really upset over your company's total failure to communicate with its customers for the past month over this. And I'm stupified by your use of the word "inconvenient" to describe a corporate decision that resulted in complete elimination of a service for which at least some of your customers purchased Tivo hardware and Tivo lifetime subscriptions.
     
  18. Aug 16, 2011 #18 of 103
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    I know you guys can update the TiVo software, but are TiVos even capable of having their firmware updated? Without a soldering iron?

    Do Rhapsody know even less about Tivos than I?
     
  19. Aug 16, 2011 #19 of 103
    Chris Gerhard

    Chris Gerhard Well-Known Member

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    I think your statement is correct only if you state "elimination of a service for which at least one customer purchased TiVo hardware and lifetime subscription". I don't know whether TiVo or Rhapsody is at fault when it comes to Rhapsody not working after Rhapsody made changes to their service on models prior to the TiVo Premiere. I do know whose fault it is that you have paid for service you can no longer receive, your fault. I learned long ago to never purchase an expensive product for an intended use that is not the primary use and not guaranteed. I won't even reread the terms of service because I knew when I purchased my TiVoHD with lifetime that all of these additional services are at the mercy of the service provider and not within TiVo's control.

    I don't care whether Rhapsody believes TiVo could have adapted to the new service requirements and points their finger at TiVo. It may be possible that TiVo will decide to spend the time and money necessary to get Rhapsody working again, assuming it is possible, and rescind the announcement of the end of the service but I doubt it.

    Only the primary intended service and services provided directly by TiVo are within TiVo's control. I couldn't have imagined anybody would have purchased a TiVo for Rhapsody before you made the claim and now I can't imagine anybody else did. If you do something like that again, be sure to read the terms of service and understand whether or not this ancillary purpose you want the product for is guaranteed to work for the life of the product being purchased.
     
  20. Aug 16, 2011 #20 of 103
    DrewS3

    DrewS3 Member

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    There is actually very little functionality in a Tivo that is completely under the control of Tivo. The Tivo Desktop functionality is all I can think of right now.
    The core DVR functions depend on the over-the-air format and/or cable cards. We saw the Series 1 abandoned when the over-the-air broadcasts transistioned to digital, even though supporting the digital set-top boxes would have been a trivial update for Tivo. I expect that if there are any changes or updates to cable card we will likewise see older Tivos lose support.
     

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