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RG59 or RG6, does it matter?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by Hickoryw, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. Feb 9, 2016 #1 of 79
    Hickoryw

    Hickoryw Member

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    Hooking up 3 minis to a roamio pro created MoCa network. Does it matter if the coax is RG59 or RG6 or a mix of both? Will it work on RG59? Will it be faster on RG6?
     
  2. Feb 9, 2016 #2 of 79
    mickinct

    mickinct Member

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    NUTMEG STATE
    https://sewelldirect.com/learning-center/rg59-or-rg6 RG 6

    All of the new demands required by, satellite signals and broadband internet made it necessary to find a more effective coaxial cable. RG6 cable was designed to fulfill these requirements. It has a larger conductor, which gives you much better signal quality. The dielectric insulation was made thicker as well, which means it is much less likely to carry an electric current that could damage your sensitive electronics. RG 6 is also made with a different kind of shielding, which allows it to more effectively handle Ghz level signals.
     
  3. Feb 9, 2016 #3 of 79
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Either will work since both have the required impedance (75 ohm) and both can take the commonly used F connectors. However, RG-6 has lower loss per foot of cable and is generally preferred. There is a table comparing loss in the article linked in post #2 of this thread.

    What's kind of dismal is that either type is very lossy. Even RG-6 loses 79% of power (6.8 dB attenuation) at 900 MHz (the top of the TV band) over a 100 ft run. It's very fortunate that the electrical power wiring in your house isn't anywhere near that lossy! (Of course the TV cable would have very low loss at the 60 Hz used for power.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  4. Feb 9, 2016 #4 of 79
    SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot New Member

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    What MoCA channel frequency does TiVo default to - as that could have a major impact with RG59...And considering that is most important element of OP post.
     
  5. Feb 9, 2016 #5 of 79
    joewom

    joewom Member

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    I'm almost positive I have RG59 at my home. 1994. Moca and all signals are great and I have 9 outlets.
     
  6. Feb 9, 2016 #6 of 79
    doctord

    doctord Member

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    I have a mini in my upstairs bedroom that is fed via RG59 from an Elite downstairs.
    The cable was in the walls since I bought the place and it was built in 1978.
    No issues with moca or video.
    If I was installing new cable, I would definitely go R6.
     
  7. snerd

    snerd Active Member

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    TiVo normally defaults to "auto", which could end up anywhere from 1125MHz to 1525MHz. I'm guessing the MoCA adapters will try lower frequencies first in order to minimize issues with older splitters.

    RG59 doesn't magically stop carrying signals at a particular frequency, and will work well beyond 2000MHz. It just has higher loss than RG6 at all frequencies.

    RG59 may have problems if your house is the size of a football field. For smaller homes, it usually works just fine.
     
  8. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

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    Ellicott...
    RG59 was fine for older analog cable systems, but newer digital cable systems and satellites require RG6. There are several different types of RG6.

    Signal wire - this can be either copperclad steel or solid copper. The most common variety is copperclad steel, which is also the cheapest. It's fine for short runs, but will have higher signal loss for longer runs. It also has lower bandwidth and may not be suitable for satellite and most digital cable systems. Solid copper core is the best, but it's also the most expensive.

    Shield - the shield is basically the ground return for the signal. It can be composed of a foil wrap and may have up to four single thin wires wrapped around the dielectric and is commonly known as quad shield. Cheaper cables may only have the foil shield and just one or two ground wires. Higher quality cables will have a braided shield, but again this is more expensive.

    If you make your own cables, don't even bother with the old style crimp fasteners. Get some higher quality crimp connectors and a compression tool for putting them together. You'll have a much more solid connection and greatly reduce the chance of the connector falling apart. You'll also have much lower signal loss. Look on ebay for deals on both the connectors and the compression tool. You can buy them at most home improvement stores, but you'll pay a ridiculous price for them. Same goes for the coax cable. I generally buy cable in 1,000-ft rolls simply because I tend to rewire my entire house when I upgrade. A lot of installers buy cable in bulk for installation jobs and end up with a lot of cable left over. I've picked up remnant cable in lengths of 300-ft or more on ebay for a lot less than I would have paid normally. This is an economical way to get quality Ethernet riser cable, like CAT5e or CAT6.
     
  9. snerd

    snerd Active Member

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    Since there are plenty of people here reporting that they are using RG59 without any problem, it is clear that your claim that newer digital cable systems "require" RG6 is simply too extreme.

    Yes, RG6 is better than RG59, because RG59 has higher loss. The difference becomes more important at higher frequencies, and that is why satellite systems need RG6. However, there is no meaningful difference between analog and digital. Coax doesn't know or care if the signals are analog or digital, RF signals all obey Maxwell's equations whether or not the TV signal is encoded into a digital data stream. Both RG59 and RG6 will carry signals well above 2000MHz, so for MoCA networks or OTA/catv signals that people in TCF forums care about, either will work fine.
     
  10. joewom

    joewom Member

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    Well said. I asked a friend at work who has Directv on what he has and stated his house was prewired for RG59 and while they said he needed RG6 when they installed and tested with current house wiring it worked fine. Going on 4 years with no issues. They don't cover rewiring the house in free installation and you have to basically take responsibility that they say you need RG6 and you don't have that. He has RG6 from the dish to the side of the house only.
     
  11. Wil

    Wil Senile Member

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    I would never use RG59 for any work these days, since I prefer overkill and if you're going to the trouble, even just a new lead, why not; but you are correct.

    Over the years I've seen so much variation in quality and condition of cable that I'd even make this blanket statement: at most household distances, highest quality RG59 in optimal condition will outperform cheap RG6 particularly if it has sharp bends, fraying, or water intrusion. There is horrible RG6 cable being sold in department stores and online.
     
  12. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot New Member

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    Builders Use the cheapest RG59 (or RG6) they can find....like the prefab stuff at Home Depot or Lowes, unless the specs call for "highest quality".
     
  13. Wil

    Wil Senile Member

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    I hardly ever get stuff at places like that. But at a time of immediate need some years ago I went to, I think HDepot. Looked at the specs of what they had (the supplier and # was printed on the outside) and it looked good. Ran some sweeps and it was even better than that. I have no idea if that was an exception.
     
  14. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot New Member

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    I am talking the prepackaged RCA junk, not the stuff on spools.
     
  15. Wil

    Wil Senile Member

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    You and I are in 100% agreement.

    A miracle has been achieved and Tivo Community Forum can close up shop and retire; it can accomplish no greater feat.
     
  16. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot New Member

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    Work, yes. Well....that's a deep subject.

    RG59 is only swept and recommended in uses lower than 1Ghz and as you noted, MoCA can be over 1Ghz.

    RG6 is now normally swept to 2Ghz with much less loss in the 1-2Ghz range.
     
  17. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

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    Ellicott...
    RG6 not only has lower loss, but it supports a much wider bandwidth than RG59. Just because RG59 works for some people doesn't mean it gives you the best signal. Digital cable and satellite have much wider bandwidth requirements than older analog systems. It's got nothing to do with whether the signal is analog or digital but rather the bandwidth of the system. Analog cable was limited to a specific range of frequencies whereas digital cable transmits signals well outside of that range. RG59 may work, but it simply won't work as well as RG6 because the signal level will drop off at the extremes of the bandwidth range. You may still get a signal, but it can be severely attenuated depending on the frequency of the channel in question. I sincerely doubt than any cable installer uses RG59 anymore. Satellite installers have always used RG6 due to the higher frequency requirements.

    It all boils down to whether or not you're satisfied with using something that is "good enough" or something that's actually designed for the task at hand. I can communicate with someone using two tin cans and a string, but it's not the preferred method. ;) RG6 is the recommend coax for digital cable and satellite systems so that's what I use. Recommending RG59 is not something I'd tell a friend to do.
     
  18. joewom

    joewom Member

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    Of course one would not do a new install of RG59. But if you have it 9 out of 10 times it will work fine. I have 150MBS down and 30 up with 9 TV outlets all with TIVO on MOCA with the exception of one that is Ethernet along with 5 other devices using MOCA and all on RG59. My download speed is over 150mbs and never had a signal issue. Again my friend has Directv with all the channels with house wiring of RG59 and no issues. MOCA is strong so the argument of anything with higher freqs will have problems is not true in most cases. Directv operates in the 2000 range I believe and RG59 works.

    yes if you live in a mansion you might have a problem. I have a 3000 square foot home and don't have any issues. So the benefit to upgrade the house to RG6 at this time is nothing but just to feel good. Now if it starts effecting things like when they got DOCIS 3.1 and I couldn't get the speed because of the cable then I would have to look at that then.

    And your tin can analogy is not very good. If I get my internet speed and tv channels all in full HD without issues its not good enough it works. There would be no benefit for RG6. A tin can is not preferred because sound sucks and you are limited with distance. It doesn't do what people want. RG59 as proven does exactly what most people want and need.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  19. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Well-Known Member

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    Ellicott...
    FYI:

    http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-rg6-and-rg59/

    https://sewelldirect.com/learning-center/rg59-or-rg6

    http://blog.solidsignal.com/content.php/2114-Which-is-better-RG59-RG6-or-RG11-cable

    http://www.milestek.com/blog/index.php/2009/09/rg59-coax-vs-rg6-coax/

    http://www.highdefforum.com/directv-forum/120763-directv-rg6-vs-rg59-question.html

    http://www.bedrocklearning.com/cs_strw_page7.htm

    You decide. Personally, I take recommendations from anyone a public forum with a huge grain of salt unless I'm actually aware of their expertise. I would never expect anyone I didn't know to take my word for anything. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but just someone that's worked in the electronics field for over 38 years, mostly dealing with RF components.
     
  20. joewom

    joewom Member

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    Point taken. Just saying RG59 until it doesn't handle what I pay for from my cable company it's not cost effective to replace just because RG6 was designed for it better. It's like Cat 5 to cat 5e to cat 6. Cat 5 will do just fine for 99% of reg people but is cat 6 best of course. Should someone rewire their cat 5 house with cat 6 if there isn't a reason?
     

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