Recording capacity is a damn joke...

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by TiVo_Fanatic, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    FYI: the only reason lrhorer recommends against an S4 is because they are not "hardware hackable" (yet), so take his replies with a grain of salt.
     
  2. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    That's a bit misleading. The fact the Premier cannot be hacked (at this time, anyway) has far-reaching implications. First of all, it means in a very large number of markets - and the number is growing daily - MRV and TiVo-to-go are non-functional. For a significant number of us, that alone turns the TiVo into a brick. Secondly, it blocks off avenues for a great many applications and features that a lot of us feel are important and useful. Many of those features, for example MRV and Caller ID, I don't use myself, but it is important they be available for those who do want them. Others I consider absolutely essential. Without them I would scrap my TiVos completely.

    On a more philosophical note, it means the industry is (successfully) screwing with my right to do whatever I want with something I own, and that is unacceptable.

    Oh, and BTW, you were the one who recommended this:

    For a rapidly increasing number of subscribers, that is not possible with a Premier.
     
  3. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Yes, it will.

    Of course you did. The drive is supposed to be full. Otherwise, part of the TiVo is being wasted.

    The TiVo won't create more time for you to watch TV. The only thing that can fix that issue is to re-arrange your schedule for watching TV (at some point that is not wise), or curb your desire for watching TV a bit. The TiVo hard drive is a little like a checking account. Putting more money in a checking account does not allow you to spend more money every month. It merely provides you with a cushion that helps prevent you from running out of cash before the next payday. If your video appetite is larger than your time budget, then you need to fiddle with either your appetite or your budget, not your TiVo. (That's a general observation, not a criticism of your viewing habits.)

    Provided the user consumes videos at a rate commensurate with the rate at which the high value content is being recorded, and the period of aging is less than the average longevity of a video on the drive, it becomes very unlikely a high value video will be lost. The lower the value of the video (as measured by how long it takes the user to get around to watching it), the more likely the video might be deleted. The only thing that would break this system would be if for some reason one watches the less interesting programs before the more interesting ones. Ordinarily, that would be perverse, not to mention quite against one's natural impulses. There can, of course, be perfectly valid exceptions. One might have recorded a ten hour mini-series that one wishes to watch in one long session, or there might be a favorite movie one wishes to share when one's brother comes into town. That's where either KUID or TTG comes into the picture. The point is, KUID is designed to handle specific exceptions to the recording paradigm, not as a part of the regular daily recording regimen.

    That's a different matter. I feel for you.
     
  4. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Well I wouldn't like that. I purposely use KUID to record whole seasons of shows with the intentions of not watching them until the summer when there are few or no new shows (I am OTA only).
     
  5. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Yes I just lost a 2TB drive that was less than a year old. Really messed up my future viewing plans.
     
  6. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    That is incorrect. First of all the standard Premier comes with a 320G hard drive, not a 2T. The XL comes with a 1T drive, and the Elite with a 2T.

    Secondly, the S2 can have a 2T or 3T drive installed. It just won't be able to make use of all it. After removing the drive from an S2, it can be fully utilized in another platform.

    Thirdly, an S2 can be upgraded with a much smaller drive as a stop-gap measure. You can probably lick up a 500G on Craigslist cheap. I sold a bunch of 500G drives on Craigslist for $25 each earlier this year.

    I don't see your point. Since the S2s are limited to SD content, an S2 with a 500G hard drive will potentially hold more videos than an S3+ with a 3T hard drive.

    Once again, only the Elite has four tuners. The other S4s do not. How much of an advantage is that, though? Every once in a while I run across an irreconcilable recording conflict. When I do, I simply record the third program on one of the other TiVos. Since you have more than one TiVo, clearly you can do the same.

    It may be possible to do more than 3T on an S3 or a THD, but even if not, again, how much of an advantage is it? At some point, increasing the drive capacity of a device like the TiVo is not wise or even desirable. First of all, the TiVo simply does not have the tools available that makes the handling of huge numbers of videos practical. In a word, it's not scalable. Secondly, hard drives are frail, and the larger the drive, the more impotent that frailty becomes. Of course, some people have upgraded their TiVos with RAID arrays, but that's really a kludge solution. A much better and more manageable solution is an external RAID server to hold the content. Depending on where you live, with a Premier that may not be possible, however, and even if it is possible today, it may not be possible tomorrow. My primary video server has 24T of RAID6 storage. There is no way one is going to cram that much storage into a Tivo in the near future, or with that much fault tolerance.

    Yes, I never recommended or owned an S2. I waited for the S3. I'm highly pleased I did. And no, I don't recommend a plasma, either. They are still too frail and expensive. I certainly recommend against certain computers whose performance or features are unacceptable for the intended purpose.
     
  7. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    In that case, I definitely don't recommend storing all that on the TiVo. Of course, it also kills the Premier Elite as a choice for you.

    If you ask me, with the exception of PBS, there are never any shows of any sort any time of year OTA... only a bunch of commercials with some goofy crap attached to them. That's just my opinion, though.

    I think I rest my case, here. Not only will moving all that content off the TiVo allow it to do its job the way the engineers designed it, but it's a lot easier to expand an external server's capacity to whatever you need. A good backup strategy of your server also just about guarantees you won't lose anything important, which is definitely not the case with storage on the TiVo, as clearly you already know. What's more, with the stuff stored on the external server, you can get rid of commercials quickly, easily, and completely. That saves space, time, and a heck of a lot of annoyance.

    All hard drives do three things: read data, write data, and lose data.
     
  8. supersnoop

    supersnoop Member

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    Have you considered loading TiVo Desktop to a computer? That will allow you to see the size of each program. Or, I believe the kmttg program will provide statistics to show the size/hour grouped by channel, so you can see if there's one particular show or channel that's eating up all your recording space.
     
  9. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    The Series 2s support a maximum of 2 1TB drives, one master, one slave.
     
  10. TiVo_Fanatic

    TiVo_Fanatic Member

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    Ty for all the relies but when I say S4 I am referring to the Elite, maybe I'm a bit ill informed but I thought the Elite was the only TiVo labeled as an S4. In any event, it's not something I would be able to go and get for what I'm thinking is at least 6 months but it is still something I want to get. I guess you could at best just say I'm trying to go to school on it right now.

    As for things to recomend against, from what little bit I read it seems like TiVo to TiVo (MRV) is MIA right now on it. If so then that would suck since I actively transfer stuff around the house to "share" it between the TiVo's.

    FWIW, is there a compiled list of sorts that says what the Elite can't do right now ?
     
  11. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    I think they changed the way things were handled after the S1 because of the addition of the Recently Deleted folder.
     
  12. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    The Premiere was the beginning of the Series 4 platform.
     
  13. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Um, yeah. I certainly woould not go that far. First of all, speaking in general, any time there is an option, it is good for the user. Eliminating options is not somemthing I would typically applaud. One doesn't have to use the KUID on Season Passes, if one chooses not.

    Any specific use of KUID can make sense as long as it is well considered... hmm, that's a little circular. By definition nothing can make sense if it is not well considered. Anyway, by weighing the convenience of the use of KUID against its impacts on the system, one can quickly and easily allow for good use of the system's resources.

    It's your TiVo, so you are free to use it as you see fit, and marking one weekly SP as KUID will not usually have a large impact on the system. Especialy if one's level of "hoarding" shows is at all large, however, then one may well be best served by archiving the content to an external system. There are plenty of applications with automated processes to handle this very thing.

    I'm not sure what you mean, here. A blurb every time one selects KUID?
     
  14. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    The Elite can do TiVo to TiVo MRV.

    IIRC What it can't do (currently) is:
    1) be hacked to allow that even if your cable providers implements copy protection to prevent it.*
    2) do TiVo to TiVo streaming (which would allow you to watch (most?), but not copy, copy protected content from another TiVo)

    *Whether that is an issue for you depends on if your cable company applies CCI-byte restrictions to some or all of their content AND if you'd have been willing to perform hardware hacking on your TiVo to bypass this.
     
  15. TiVo_Fanatic

    TiVo_Fanatic Member

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    I live in Meadville, Pa which makes my cable provider Armstrong.

    As for hardware hacking, that would all depend on the hack itself and what's involved with it. TBH though, I don't do a lot with my existing TiVo's except move stuff between multiple units or transfer stuff to my PC which I then use programs to sometimes decryprt the .tivo files or whatever their extension is to be burned to DVD and then played anywhere I want that has a DVD player.
     
  16. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    No, the problem is it doesn't work like people expect it to. When people's TiVo's stop recording new programs and don't understand why, the first question is always, "Do you use KUID on season passes?". And the answer is yes, 9 times out of 10. It is sort of ironic that KUID has the opposite effect that people intended it to have.
     
  17. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Only if the subscriber's CATV provider is not one that does not implement copy protection on any of its channels. While still a ltittle less than 50%, that number is growing smaller every day. Just ask the folks who were in areas bought by Frontier, or who have Brighthouse Cable, or those of us who have Time Warner Cable, who have had to deal with it for five years.

    Which means that in nearly 40% of household, nothing but the local channels can be transferred via MRV or TTG. In considerably more than that, some number of channels are blocked, just not all.

    The CATV company cannot by law apply a value greater than 0x01 to the CCI byte on linear channels. This means they can be strreamed, but not copied. They are allowed to apply CCI=0x02 or higher on IPPV, rental, and VOD offerings, which means those cannot even be streamed.

    The point is, it is quite possible on an S3 or THD, but not on any S4 platform. If one's S3 TTG and MRV offerings are OK today but borked tomorrow, one still has recourse to get it working again. On an S4, it's just borked. Now of course, the particular user may not care about MRV, TTG, or any third party utilities such as MFS_FTP, tserver, TivoWebPlus, NCID, etc. One may also want TTG and MRV, and be on a CATV system that does not copy protect content, and be wiling to roll the dice on it staying that way.

    Also, don't forget, the Premier Elite does not do OTA. Again, the OP may or may not care about OTA.
     
  18. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

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    The Elite is only the newest S4 available- it has four tuners and 2TB. So if you do not need the extra tuners you can get the regular S4 and add your own 2TB drive.

    MRV works great with all Tivos. You are probably thinking of MRS (streaming) that is on the horizon. MRS is especially helpful for folks who have a cableco that lock down content for transferring around the house and cannot MRV.

    Go look around the premiere forum. MRS is the biggie on the horizon, but you will see other bugs that are being uncovered. As for what it cannot do, it does not make pancakes.
     
  19. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Let's put it this way: If you can transfer content with your S3 right now, then you will be able to do so with an S4. That could change next week or next month, though. More and more CATV systems are setting the CCI byte.

    Not much, really. For details, go to the "other" TiVo forum and sniff around. You can look for my signature.

    There is a great deal more available, but even that is not possible on an unmodified TiVo once the CCI byte gets set on a channel.
     
  20. TiVo_Fanatic

    TiVo_Fanatic Member

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    Assuming it gets set at all which yes I know is a possibility.
     

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