Recording capacity is a damn joke...

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by TiVo_Fanatic, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

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    Wait- I don't understand all of this worrying about data managing when a larger hard disc will simply "solve it". It is extremely easy to do, and while hdd costs are up, the size is limited for a S3 and would seem to be worth its weight in gold due to stress relief.
     
  2. TiVo_Fanatic

    TiVo_Fanatic Member

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    Wow, to think I never considered that. Yes a HDD in greater size would solve said issues but that's beside the point. In any event, I plan on ugrading to a S4 when I get the cash so upgrading an S3 I will be getting rid of when I do get a S4 is a moot point. This post is more or less trying to unerstand the complexity of things that is known as TiVo.
     
  3. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

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    I did not say you did not consider it, I was wondering why you did not do it. Your response makes sense. FYI- upgrading the hdd in a Premiere is even easier than the S3, and it can take as high as a 2tb drive. :)
     
  4. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    I think you are just recording more than you can watch in the time allotted and using KUID is what is causing your recording problems.
    Even if you ugrade the hard drive, you will still run into recording capacity issues once you fill it up with KUID shows.
    I had a 1TB hard drive in my Tivo and I still had to take extra measures to save shows I might like to watch.

    If you can, use Tivo Desktop or one of the other 3rd party applications to auto transfer some of your shows to a computer for temp storage. Shows that you want to watch eventually, but not a must see.

    For instance, I have SNL, Supernateral, Terra Nova, Community and Modern Family set up to auto transfer to my PC.
    I'm behind on SNL (50 eps) and Supernatural (watching the last of season 3 now).
    I haven't seen any of the others yet. That tells you how far behind I am.:eek:
    And that's with just OTA. I don't know WHAT would happen if I had the variety that cable offers. :eek:
     
  5. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I thought the entire problem is using KUID in the wrong way. Even on boxes I've had small hard drives on, I've never had any issues. But using KUID is a rare thing for me since the TiVo has always been excellent in managing my recordings.
     
  6. daveak

    daveak Series 3 Novice

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    Is it true the TiVo, when future shows to record are set to KUID (especially as SPs), will actually reserve the space in advance for these shows and count this space as used?
     
  7. CharlesH

    CharlesH Member

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    At least that is how it was when I saw this discussed a few years ago. One of the "gotchas" of using KUID was (is?) that space is reserved for any KUID programs in the ToDo list.
     
  8. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    Does it delete the "oldest exired recording" or the "recording that's been expired the longest"? (I keep meaning to test that and confirm)

    By default those are the same thing, but if you've adjusted any recording's 'keep until' date then that might no longer be true.
     
  9. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    That is what i do. if it's a show I plan to watch later but haven't had time I will extend the keep until date. I will only use KUID for extreme situations. I record alot of stuff, but typically if I haven't watched it in six months, I'll just let it eventually fall off and get deleted if the TiVo decides to do that. Of course if there is plenty of recording space this isn't an issue.

    I'll go into my TiVos at least once a year(typically right before the new Tv season starts) and clean things out since I'm also ordering my Season Passes then too.
     
  10. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    Actually it's been years since my TiVo has had to auto-delete a normal (non-suggestion) recording. I always end up watching, deleting, or transfering shows long before I run out of space.

    Because of that I rarely bother messing with the 'keep until' date. (One exception is that I'll occassionally use KUID as a visual indicator of what I'm currently watching. Not because I think the TiVo is about to delete it, but just so it stands out in the Now Playing list.

    That's one reason I've never gotten around to testing the interaction of auto-delete and 'keep until'. It never happens naturally on my TiVo so I'd have to break my habits to get it to that point.
     
  11. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    No one called you stupid, but using KUID indiscriminantly does mean that you are deliberatly breaking a management system that works far better than any human possibly can just so you can make more unnecessary work for yourself and then complain how the system is broken.

    You are allowing your obsession to bring about the very thing you are trying to avoid. If you stop using KUID indiscriminantly and only apply it to the very rare old program you realy want to watch and want to make sure will not be deleted, then the problem will never come up. I have less than a dozen total programs set to KUID across three TiVos, and I record a very large number of programs daily, but I reiterate, I never worry at all about how much space is on any of my Tivos, and in nearly 12 years I have never had a program automatically deleted that I particularly wanted to watch. Once again, if I don't bother to watch a program in four years, I really am not that attached to it.

    It won't unless it is the oldest expired recording and there are not enough suggestions or deleted programs.
     
  12. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Yeah, mostly. I suppose it is a natural impulse to think the KUID is a tool that will make sure one is able to watch everything one wants, but it is not the case. Indiscriminate or excessive use of KUID will indeed have the opposite effect, causing a loss of new recordings and forcing the user to intervene in a process that works perfectly well if left largely untouched.

    Not only that, but it just doesn't work. Forcing a KUID status merely means one will miss yet-to-be recorded programs, as opposed to already-recorded programs. Ordinarly, in a time independent sense there is nothing to recommend one over the other. When one considers the age on average, however, the oldest programs are usually going to be likely to be less important than a new one, and with a buffer at least several weeks in size, it means the odds of losing an important program are extremely low. If one is really obsessed with absolutely never losing a program, however, the fastsest, easiest, and most reliable way is not to try to keep track of how much space is on the TiVo, but rather what the oldest program is. It's 30 seconds of looking at the NPL, rather than scrutinizing the whole list of programs to figure out what to delete.

    Well, sort of. I (or rather, my Tivos) record a whole lot more than I could ever watch - by at least a factor of 5. Whenever I sit down to watchTV, however, there is always a good selection of things to watch to suit my mood, or the appetites of my friends and family. The "really good stuff" gets watched in fairly short order - certainly in less than 4 years - while the items that are of more occasional interest eventually get deleted if they don't get watched.

    Well, that's one approach, but personally I transfer shows to my server for very long term storage. Anything that is on the Tivos I consider to be volatile to one extent or the other.
     
  13. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    That is completely specious. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from taking the larger hard drive out of the old TiVo and putting it in the new one. The investment would certainly not be wasted. I'm not sure why you want to go to an S4, though. There is little to recommend it, and a considerable number of things to recommend against.

    From the user's standpoint, it is not complex, at all: Have the TiVo select recordings for you. Watch the recordings. Delete them when you are done. That's it. As long as the drive is large enough, you will never accidentally lose a recording you really wanted to watch, unless there are more recordings you really want to watch than you can possibly watch. In that case, nothing you, the TiVo, or anything else on Earth can prevent you from losing some recordings. Even in that event, however, the best solution is not to splatter KUID all over the place. The best solution is to periodically pull up the list of oldest recordings and see if one you really want to keep is on it. If it is, the best resonse is to go ahead and watch it. If it is really not practical at the moment, the go ahead and KUID, but KUID is something that is best used very sparingly.
     
  14. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    That, I don't know. I so rarely ever change a keep until date that I've never really considered it.

    True enough, but when the oldest expired recordings are over four years old, the distinction is just not one I feel compelled to investigate.
     
  15. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    I really wish TiVo would kill of KUID for season passes. It causes so many issues. The only way it should be allowed is manually on a single program.
     
  16. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    All stations that come through TiVo as digital will be recorded as-is regardless of your quality setting. Most cable companies use a bitrate that's closer to TiVo's High setting so that could explain the dependency. Also some cable companies simulcast the analog channels in digital, so even though you may be recording from "channel 2" the cable card is actually directing the TiVo to use the digital version of the channel instead bypassing your quality setting completely.

    Dan
     
  17. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    Right, the only right way to use tivo is the way you use it. :confused:

    I agree marking every SP as KUID can cause issues but marking an entire SP as KUID can make sense. A show you're intentionally going to wait and watch at once. Maybe a season of Dexter. You want tivo to delete newer programs but leave all of your Dexter SP alone.

    I mark Mythbusters as KUID. I'd rather keep an older Mythbusters, which I may have only watched part, rather then let tivo delete a half watched episode in order to record a newer episode.

    Tivo could solve the "issues" if it provided messages that better explained the situation.
     
  18. TiVo_Fanatic

    TiVo_Fanatic Member

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    Except for the fact that the S4 natively comes with a 2TB drive and everything else I own are S2's which a best suport a max of 1TB.

    1. Aside from a single S3 OLED model everything else I own are S2's.
    2. As far as recomendations go... the S4 has quad tuners, 2TB native storage with future possibility of maybe 3TB.

    As for things to recomend against, the same could easily be said for the S2's, S3's, plasma TV's... hell even your computer.
     
  19. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    It might. I have seen my S3 & TivoHD seem to "clean up" (i.e. delete) recordings in ANTICIPATION of needing space that day.. whereas my S1 seems to only delete recordings absolutely WHEN it needs the space.

    I have no absolute proof of it, but I've seen suggestions go down when there was no new recording made (and I could see no evidence in recording history). There are slight possibilities (it tried to record a new suggestion on a channel it didn't have a signal on), but I think I've seen the issue often enough that this wasn't likely the cause, at least not always.
     
  20. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    A larger hard disk *won't* solve it.. I ended up just filling that up! (and with stuff I wanted to watch).. Then lost the drive (or 2.. I may be able to resuscitate one).
     

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