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Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by eisenb11, Aug 1, 2008.
Oh boy, that's not was I was hoping to hear. I was really hoping to avoid a battle.
I asked my CC about that and they said it can't be done. They said a charge can be contested once it's on there, but there's no way to block a charge that may happen in the future.
My credit card that is on file with Tivo expired in march yet they've been able to keep charging it.
The CC said that even if I were to cancel my card and get a new one with a new number reissued that, companies like Tivo subscribe to some kind of update service where they'll be provided my new credit card number!
Apparently companies that do recurring charges have a pretty good system set up for them.
It's amazing how hard it is to get out of this mess.
I had the same experience with an internet provider refusing to refund months of charges for service I had cancelled. They initially told me the same thing about not letting them know in time to receive a refund, etc. They count on people giving up or blaming themselves when it's actually flat out stealing! I went online to the BBB, typed out a quick complaint and waited. I was sent a letter from the provider saying it wasn't their fault but they would go ahead and give me back MY money anyway in response to my BBB complaint. At the very least it's proof to your CC that you tried to get relief on your own. Shame on TIVO! I thought better of them.
I wonder if cancelling that card altogether and then getting another from a different issuer (e.g. cancel the Mastercard and get a Visa) would break that cycle.
Sure, it would be a hassle to move your automatic billing stuff from the old card to the new card, but at least Tivo could be kept out of the loop.
If a Forum TiVo rep. posted here and then resolved this case expeditiously after verifying the facts it would be a perfect example, worth far more than the dollar value involved, of how TiVo cares about rectifying slip-ups.
Granted the TiVo reps have done well in resolving these kinds of issues. Both from a sense of fairness on the part of the rep and as a form of damage control.
However it TiVo really cared about rectifying slip-ups they would have a reasonable mechanism for doing so aside from responding to rants on a non TiVo sponsored internet forum. And they would have another mechanism in place to prevent such things in the first place.
For example recently I canceled one insurance policy after getting another with a different company. No fuss, no muss. I called in, got the billing people, they did the cancellation, stopped the automatic billing from my checking account and confirmed the transaction all in about 5 minutes. Two days later I got a letter confirming the cancellation in writing.
People need to be careful with terms "illegal" and "fraud" when they don't know what they are talking about.
That would likely work. From what I understand the subscription updates were meant to take care of change of addresses, renewed expirations, lost cards that were replaced, etc. Basically, changes within the context of the original CC company.
That's a lot of trouble though. My CC historically has done a good job protecting me from potentially fraudulent activity, so I don't want to let them go. I've also been using them for a long time so having this card is good for my credit history
I'm not sure if this is fraudulent, since they didn't intentionally go out to deceive (I'm sure the original CSR who was supposed to cancel messed up)... and until Friday I wouldn't even consider it illegal since it was probably an honest mistake.
As of Friday, however, I would consider this illegal as their mistake has been made known to them and yet refused to continue to fully fix it.
IANAL, but the term "unjust enrichment" comes to mind...
EDIT: It's too early in the morning and I'm not thinking clearly... I take the above back... how can someone accidentlaly not-cancel an account? If they truly did ignore my cancellation request then this is both illegal and fraud. If it was an accident, then what I wrote above applies.
Human error. A mistake.
"How can someone not see a charge on their credit card for a year?"
Again human error. A mistake.
Tivo made a mistake. So did you.
Good customer service may dictate that they reverse all of the charges, but I believe there is a statute of limitations issue with regard to the charges on your credit card.
That would be a statement of limitations, which is a credit card policy for getting the CC to fight battles on your behalf. My CC said this may not be an issue.
Even if it were applied, the statement is only between me and the CC. Tivo is still liable for what they did. There probably is a statute of limitations for what Tivo did, but I'm sure that it'll be at least 1 year.
Either way, this all should be a non-issue. Tivo should just fess up to the mistake and refund the money - no fighting needed.
my one Visa card expired and I got a new one from same place but different number. TiVo had no idea and I had to tell them. I highly doubt they would follow a change in your card number.
first line CSr is outsourced so you did the right thing in escalating it so an actual TiVo employee can look at it - thing is, that group is smaller and may take two weeks until your case is read by them due to simple backlog.
I read plenty of other threads of people upset bcasue the CSRs told them they could not cancel the free year upfront and they had to call back at the year mark to cancel. Sounds like your kind of case is not new to TiVo. I do not think this is fraud or an oversight of the cancellation. I think it is simply a really bad billing system that is severly limited and poor process management in the CSR group being used. I think Tivo has since moved on from using that group/
Aye, from what I understand you couldn't cancel immediately, but actually had to wait a few months.
From what I understand, the free year part of the lifetime transfer package was partly needed in order to do the transfer. Apparently, it takes Tivo up to 3 months to transfer service from the old unit to the new unit. In that sense, the 1 year policity got the new unit up and running while awaiting the lifetime transfer.
It did take quite a while for my lifetime to transfer, I checked for the first few weeks, saw nothing, then checked again about 3 months in.
The reason they were supposed to cancel my service was because I had waited until after the transfer ocurred before requesting deactivation. At that point, my Series 3 was registered as a "lifetime" unit so I had no more use for a second policy.
It would take approx. 60 days for Lifetime Service to be transferred to the hi-def DVR, probably because a customer could cancel the whole deal within the first 30 days. As soon as Lifetime transferred the 1 year free service on the old TiVo could be cancelled.
TiVo told me the same thing and that if i called after the first bill the 30 days applies and i could than cancel and receive my payment back, I did call within that 30 day period and they did cancel and refund the one payment. I admit that at the time I thought many people would caught up in this thing that why i don't generally take free offers with auto charges at the end IF you don't cancel, as i think its a low end type of marketing ploy. TiVo should have E-Mailed each person with an op in if you wanted to continue the service.
What a pain-
I have a business card from advanta. The morons let some thief use my account to make 36 identical 100 dollar charges in Houston while I was sitting in my office in NJ. After they eventually figured out to lock down my account they let none of my recurring charges (cell phone, toll pass, cable broadband, hosted exchange, etc
.) go through and I was forced to call everyone and update to my new card number.
I wish they would have just auto updated all that
I guess it depends on the card provider?
actually I think the 90 day think comes from the federal trade commision-
while trying to search for some help for you I noticed they have a website that talks about it. But it didn't really have info about what happens if you notice that a year went on so I'm not sure how it would apply.
for all we know the outsourced CSR escalating it to a tivo employee who is supposed to call back is just that reasonable mechanism. I dont think it's unreasonable to limit what the outsourced CSR's are permitted to do- and then having them excalate things outside whatever that limit is to a tivo employee. Personally I'd rather (and I think many would agree) there was no such thing as outsourced CSR's but that doesn't seem to be the real world for most enterprises in this day and age....
We'll have to see if they actually follow through. But at this point it's tough to tell if that's the normal way things work (the csr escalating) or if the internet rant or the call to the credit card, etc, etc was the real reason it gets resolved.
Aye, we'll have to wait a bit and see how this'll turn out.
It'll probably be a few business days before I get a call-back.
Right now, I'm unhappy, but it's true that the first level CSR can only do so much. It's the next level of CSR, when they return my call, who will determine my opinion of Tivo (or a Tivo online rep if they get to this first).
Update: I just received a call from someone at advanced customer service.
He said he got my email, so I'm assuming they either got my PMs sent here or the email I sent to their PR department.
Sounds like they're going to resolve my billing issue. Should hear back from them in 1-3 days he said.
I'll keep you all posted as I learn more.
My confidence (and satisfaction) with Tivo is rising again!
Will keep you all posted...