Questions about the Series 3

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Justin Thyme, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. Jan 6, 2006 #41 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    3,306
    1
    Mar 29, 2005

    Advertisements

    As I understand it, there are a variety of weird decoder intensive options you can do with H.264, so you would have to get into some nitty gritty details on what level of support to avoid.

    MZ's note regarding TGC and the TTG push interface wast that besides PSP and iPod, you could force a transcode to "WML". This is WIndows media Library- the database that most people associate with a music database- but it actually will store video and other data types- anyway, I think the safe bet is that they will use a plain jane Mpeg4 encoder but that that to try to replicate the exact profile would be hopeless since generating perfect sync, jitterless video 100% of the time is a huge challenge.

    Much easier if Mega to got them to just say- "Enthusiasts shouldn't bet on this, but if they did, it would be la lower risk of failure to use Divx6 free encoder using "Home Theater" setting than going with any other encoder/ transcode tool/ profile.
     
  2. Jan 6, 2006 #42 of 167
    jsmeeker

    jsmeeker Notable Member TCF Club

    115,396
    4,920
    Apr 2, 2001
    Dallas

    OK... But we'll see more and more of that. DirecTV will do it, then we'll see it with Blue-Ray and HD-DVD. Would not suprise me if cable co's started to use it too. And also for downloaded content. The video stuff from iTMS already uses it.
     
  3. Jan 6, 2006 #43 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    3,306
    1
    Mar 29, 2005
    Wow I forgot. Jeez thanks for getting me on the right planet. I keep focusing on internet, WMV-HD DIvx-HD and DirecTv future move to Mpeg4, and forget the real world is mpeg2 HD.

    So is 17-20 the typical number you would see for Cableco and DBS shows, or is that a generic number including user created (camcorder or desktop video) source files?

    It's pretty clear to me folks like TVHarmony will still be doing a brisk business after PSP and iPod converstion comes out** Because Heck- I'd be running TvHarmony "Convert to AVI option" 24/7, because I am a cheapskate. I'd much rather buy my drives at Half off the lowest internet price I can find.

    **(what are we calling this product anyway- TTG 2.4 or ttg Pvp (portable video player)?
     
  4. Jan 6, 2006 #44 of 167
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    53,322
    6,976
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    The official bitrate for HDTV is 19.4Mbps. However a lot of stations reduce that slightly so that they can simulcast both the analog and digital versions of the channel. Cable companies also reduce bitrates sometimes to save badwidth. DBS I'm not so sure about, but in the context of this conversation it doesn't really matter since the new unit will only support cable and OTA.

    Dan
     
  5. Jan 6, 2006 #45 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    3,306
    1
    Mar 29, 2005

    Advertisements

    Yeah Jeff- I know a lot of folks really like it and others really like WMV. All things equal, I'd choose against Microsloth's format and for open source xVid on general principle. But as for the WMV/H.264 arguements of which is better, I don't generally get along well with the folks who can see such fine differences, but really at the end of the day I could care less about format so long as FF works well on the T3, there are no sync problems, the conversion is fast, the compression is at least 50%, and my wife doesn't notice whatever artifacts there may be, I'll be perfectly happy.
     
  6. Jan 6, 2006 #46 of 167
    jsmeeker

    jsmeeker Notable Member TCF Club

    115,396
    4,920
    Apr 2, 2001
    Dallas

    I'm not so concerned with what looks better, as I too doubt I can tell. But I too would much prefer a codec that is actually part of the open MPEG-4 standard and one that is being adopted by many people. To me, H.264 seems to be that codec more than xVid or DivX.


    I've got a question for Dan. I'm actually a bit surpirsed HD has some set bit rate. I thought HD was pretty much defined by resolution. Or are you talking about JUST OTA ATSC HiDef stuff as defined/speced today?
     
  7. Jan 6, 2006 #47 of 167
    Hew

    Hew New Member

    211
    0
    Apr 17, 2004
    I hope eBay is prepared for the influx of Series 2 TiVos that will be put up for sale when Series 3 comes out.

    One question: Is the series 3 going to replace the series 2 or will it be sold side by side?
     
  8. Jan 6, 2006 #48 of 167
    jsmeeker

    jsmeeker Notable Member TCF Club

    115,396
    4,920
    Apr 2, 2001
    Dallas

    Good question.
     
  9. Jan 6, 2006 #49 of 167
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    53,322
    6,976
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    You're right that HDTV is a resolution*, not a bitrate. I was refering to the bitrate set by the ATSC standard.

    Dan

    * Actually it's a couple of resolutions (i.e. 720p, 1080i & 1080p)
     
  10. Jan 6, 2006 #50 of 167
    jsmeeker

    jsmeeker Notable Member TCF Club

    115,396
    4,920
    Apr 2, 2001
    Dallas

    Gotcha.. That was what I was thinking. Just wanted to be clear.
     
  11. Jan 6, 2006 #51 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    3,306
    1
    Mar 29, 2005
    Side by side. This is what is so funny about people saying Tivo is so stupid they performed the Osborne sin of announcing early and cannibalizing sales.

    Tivo execs weren't born yesterday, and they designed the S2 with a VERY long useful service life. Here's why:

    My crackpot insight of the day is that until we all have HDTVs in every room of the House, the Series2 is going to be the dominant second and third player in the home. Why- it is a great player of Mpeg2 content. What people will do is record content on the living room multi tuner t3, and use S2's in the other room to play stuff back. Take a look at an S2 playing content ripped from a DVD sometime- it is a LOT better video than what you are used to from a Tivo. You will think it is a new machine when you mrv video from the T3. Even when most of the on air content is HD, Tivo I'm sure will have a TivoDesktop downconverter software to deres HD Mpeg2 down to 720x480 display on your S2.

    And until we have gobs of HD content, you might put an S2 on the HDTV anyway. Play an SD video on a DVD burner Tivo through component, to an upscaling HDTV and I'll bet you a donut you are not going to be able to tell the T3 from the T2. So why spend $450 extra for a T3? People will be mobbing the stores for the T2 for their second and third sets. Most of the content for these will be MRV'd from the T3.

    In addition- Satellite Companies are what- 24% of the market, so that is one heck of a lot of boxes. Plus there are a lot of OTA users out there (surprizingly huge percentage- I forget the number though). Even when everything goes digital, they will not really need anything more than a converter box and an S2 if they have anything like a 35 inch or smaller set.
     
  12. Jan 6, 2006 #52 of 167
    nhaigh

    nhaigh Member

    984
    0
    Jul 16, 2001
    Lawrencevill...
    You see this is my problem. I've asked several times about being able to do this and the consensus is that you cannot. It seems HD Recorded on the series three won't be payable on the series two. This is why I'm not buying series two's today - I don;t want to be selling them on E-bay in six months to replace them with series three's.

    I think people will hold off buying S2's becuase the S3 is comming. I certianly am, otherwise I'd buy two S2's now to keep me going.
     
  13. Jan 6, 2006 #53 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    3,306
    1
    Mar 29, 2005
    There is no reason to hold off.

    1) The market for second hand S2's is not going away. If anything, there will be vastly more S2 sales than S3 sales for the forseeable future.

    2) S2 could play a show originally recorded by an SA3 at HD resolution, and subsequently downconverted by a PC for playing on the S2. Lower res? you bet. But this is 720x480- Good as DVD. Personally I have 2 HDTVs and I don't much care about the difference between upscaled DVDs and HDTV off the satellite. So the real cost here is the Substantial time to deres an HD show to SD. Also the fact some HD content will have TTG transfer disallowed. So for the folks whose second TV is an HDTV, a whole lot of them will want a T3 there too. But if they have a lot of HDTVs in the house they probably won't scoff at spending an extra $450 or whatever for the convenience.

    My conjecture (and it is only that) is you WILL be able to play an HD show, but not at HD resolution. With a good upscaling HDTV, you may not notice any more difference than what you see between an upscaled dvd and a real HDTV version of the same movie.

    The theoretical downconversion would occur on the TivoServer (running Tivo Desktop). This is needed because the T2 won't play back anything larger than 720x480.

    I wouldn't be at all surprized if Tivo provided this as part of TTG when T3 is released.

    [Edit-corrected first sentence of point two which suggested you could record HD content on an SA2. Thanks jfh3 for pointing this out.]
     
  14. Jan 6, 2006 #54 of 167
    PVR

    PVR New Member

    4
    0
    Sep 29, 2002
    I wonder when they might start beta testing the Comcast Series 3 units?
     
  15. Jan 6, 2006 #55 of 167
    SullyND

    SullyND L: 31-14 (10-2) TCF Club

    12,075
    2,334
    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    The Comcast units will not be Series 3 units. The Comcast units are Motorolas with ported TiVo software.
     
  16. Jan 6, 2006 #56 of 167
    classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

    17,877
    0
    Feb 18, 2004
    Ontario Canada.
    Current standalones interface with DirecTV fine, albeit not for HD, and there will likely be no standalone DVRs that will record HD from an external STB.
     
  17. Jan 6, 2006 #57 of 167
    classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

    17,877
    0
    Feb 18, 2004
    Ontario Canada.
    The Comast "TiVos" wont be Series anything. They are going to be Motorola boxes with some semblance of the TiVo software on it
     
  18. Jan 6, 2006 #58 of 167
    classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

    17,877
    0
    Feb 18, 2004
    Ontario Canada.
    Cabletuner=QAM. The cablecard just adds to that to get pay channels.
     
  19. Jan 6, 2006 #59 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

    3,306
    1
    Mar 29, 2005
    They will be DCT-6412's. If you don't care about Internet video content or the full Tivo experience, and do care a lot about PPV and VOD, then you want the Comcast unit. IMHO, you will be waiting a lot longer for the Comcast Tivos, and any nuimber of TTG features could be blocked due to Comcast opposition.

    From the specs, the DCT-6412 has a lot less hardware grunt than the T3, so as far as I am concerned, at best it will be a T3-lite. But it's not a useless exercise ClassicAT. It's actually very good marketing. Good for "free" Tivo training wheels- transitioning folks to "Real" Tivo experience, somewhat unsatisfying for the true blue Tivo fan... great for Advertising audience share numbers.
     
  20. Jan 6, 2006 #60 of 167
    ChuckyBox

    ChuckyBox New Member

    1,663
    0
    Oct 3, 2005
    This article claims that TiVo reps are saying the the Series 3 boxes will not do MRV (i.e., TiVo-to-TiVo transfers). Can this be true?

    And I have two questions for megazone (or anyone else at the show):
    1) Was there a working Series 3 box hooked up to a TV doing a demo?
    2) Was there just the one box, or were there more?
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements