Questions about the Series 3

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Justin Thyme, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. Jan 6, 2006 #1 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    Here are my top questions:

    1) Will all of the MCE content that Gates announced that can be downloaded to an MCE also be transferable to the Tivo3? (Akimbo, ABC, MTV, StarZ)?

    2)if MCE can be loaded onto any old home computer and used simply as a gateway, will HME apps be able to facilitate buying and automagically transfering such content to the Tivo? If not, will TIvo add such features to the “MCE plugin?”

    3) What is the Mpeg4 decoder chip in the Tivo3? Is the Mpeg2 encoder any more powerful than that in the SA2?

    4) What is the estimated transfer time for an hourlong SD show from Tivo3 to a PC using a wired 1000Mbit connection? About the same as what it would be for an SA2, or we talking several orders of magnitude difference?

    5) Will the eSata connection support any external Sata, or just Tivos. For example, could I attach it to a 2TB Silicon Image SV2000 or roll my own External Sata, such as using a eSata removeable drive enclosure like this one.

    6)Will all advanced functions such as TivoBack and HME work on the Series3 at launch? Will TivoToGo HD copying be disallowed in some cases- What should customers expect should be likely copy blocked for SD and HD content?

    7)Does Tivo envision running OCAP apps on Tivo branded hardware in the forseable future?
     
  2. Jan 6, 2006 #2 of 167
    TiVoPhish

    TiVoPhish New Member

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    May I just expand on this question?

    If/when mpeg-4 content is rolled out by cable companies the TiVo3 will be able to play it (I understand that), but will it be able to record it? Will software updates be able to take care of it's inability to record it?
     
  3. Jan 6, 2006 #3 of 167
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    Since it records digital signals as is, just writing the stream to the disc, it shouldn't care what the encoding is for recording purposes. It is just a bitstream either way.
     
  4. Jan 6, 2006 #4 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    What inability? How can you possibly presume to pontificate on OCAP applications and then ask such a.... Hey- the answer is no. Mpeg4 files are magic. Can't be written to a hard drive because they use Proton bits. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Jan 6, 2006 #5 of 167
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    I can ask, but I doubt it. The Series3 TiVo is not a media center extender, and I doubt MS is going to allow (or even be allowed to allow) that content to be sent around willy nilly.

    The MCE plugin simply adds a 10-foot interface to TiVoToGo. Think TiVo Desktop being usable from the MCE remote, that's all it is. Nicely done, but nothing huge.

    And HME is capable of anything - you can write the application to do whatever you want on the PC, only the UI is displayed on the TiVo. So you could write an HME application that uses the MCE API's to do things, sure. And any content that *could* be transferred to the TiVo could be available for TiVoToComeBack.

    1. They wouldn't tell me when I asked, but I suggested it was a Broadcom chip and was told that is 'a good guess'.
    2. They wouldn't tell me when I asked.

    First of all, it is a 10/100baseT connection, not GigE. Just to be clear.

    And it will be faster. They wouldn't say just how much faster - and frankly they probably don't know yet, since the software is pre-Alpha, but it is supposed to handle transfers of HD content acceptably (and no, I don't know just how fast), so SD content should be orders of magnitude faster than on an S2.

    I answered this elsewhere. TiVo's hope is to be able to just post minimum specs and let you buy a drive that meets them. But if testing shows the need, they'll make a list of 'approved' drives. It is unlikely that users will have to by the 'TiVo' SATA drive, but it sounds like there will be one available.


    1. That's the plan.
    2. TiVo intends to offer MRV and TTG on all content - but state that they're still determining what, if any, restrictions there may be on CableCARD recorded content to comply with Cable Labs.

    From what I've heard, no. I will ask directly to clarify, but I'm almost 100% certain the answer is no.
     
  6. Jan 6, 2006 #6 of 167
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    Megazone, Thanks agaom for your great service to the community of Tivo Fans.
    Too bad. I didn't intend it to sound like a neophyte question. Of course it is not an extender. MS has a file and are bound to protect it from being copied to untrusted devices and have gone to huge lengths with vista to protect it.

    But As I understood the BillG announcement, such downloads could be transfered to up to three devices. The most conservative approach is to to trust only devices supporting your own platform. However, if a certain OS (no names mentioned) that wished to establish itself at the center of the data universe in the home, then it would have to talk to other devices at some point if it were to successfully claim this mantle.
    In any case, there are ways to establish and maintain networks of trust as you know, such as that formalized in DTCP-IP. There are also the old fashioned informal ones- Tivo trusted Microsoft when it sent its content to the MCE as part of its support for Windows media portables. Will MS reciprocate? If not for reasons of magnanimity, then perhaps for reasons of fear- in order to hedge his bets against common fores apple amd cablecos.

    Re: Ocap on Tivo Hardware
    That's a relief. But just to make sure I'd like to hear they aren't going wonky about possible OCAP App interactivity support with 2.0 cards.
     
  7. Jan 6, 2006 #7 of 167
    VinceA

    VinceA Active Member

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    How will the S3 fit into a house of S2's? Can an S2 grab non-HD content from an S3 and vise-versa? I'm thinking I'll pick up an S3 for next Christmas but only one to replace the S2 in my bedroom. I can't swing replacing the other two S2's immediately so I'm curious about interoperability.

    Thanks MZ for the scoop.
     
  8. Jan 6, 2006 #8 of 167
    nhaigh

    nhaigh Member

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    Lawrencevill...

    Can you find out if there is any chance the MRV and TTG comonents will work with a Series II TiVo?
     
  9. Jan 6, 2006 #9 of 167
    danieljanderson

    danieljanderson Proud to preach TiVo

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    Why would OCAP be bad? I know very little about it.
     
  10. Jan 6, 2006 #10 of 167
    interactiveTV

    interactiveTV New Member

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    My only question is when will it REALLY be released? We do have new management but Tivo's track record with delivery has been sorely lacking and even the Tivo faithful take ship dates with a dose of salt.

    Which comes first? Vista or S3?

    Also, can a gear head please explain how shuffling the HD on a 100BaseT network will slow things down? How many streams at once -- with the realistic overhead?

    When we get a hard ship date and a price, I'll be thrilled. Surprised the drive is -- right now -- so small. Aren't the perpendicular recording drives due about now and capacities forecast to increase quite dramatically by third quarter? I gues with eSATA it doesn't matter as much but there is something to be said for reducing the number of boxes (and power bricks)...until Weaknees figures something out.

    Honestly, I'd buy one without a second thought in May. By November, I think there may be other interesting choices that may make me think twice. Hard to say this far out. There could be something to a box with a Blu-Ray player (like a Vista MCE box) for me as it cuts down on the number of STBs and in-wall cabling.

    The selfish, immediate gratification consumer in me wants it now. It would certainly own the market, even at a price premium, if launched sooner. IIRC, 10 million HD sets were sold in 2005. Late 2006? Not so sure. I wonder how much Comcast is sucking away development resources...

    _ITV
     
  11. Jan 6, 2006 #11 of 167
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    do not understand exactly what you are tyring to ask here.



    the word from the TiVo booth is mid to late 2006 with a 500 to 800$ price range
    Sounds like they still have some serious work to do on the software running the box whioch would be the same expertise as needed for the Comcast work. Hopefully TiVo is looking to get their box out first since Comcast box will be a competing alternative ;)
     
  12. Jan 6, 2006 #12 of 167
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    The intention is for it to interoperate with Series2 devices, but you will not be able to send HD content to non-Series3 boxes - they'd choke on it.
     
  13. Jan 6, 2006 #13 of 167
    nhaigh

    nhaigh Member

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    Lawrencevill...
    Thanks. It makes sense. I think I need to hold off buying a Series 2 and get multiple Series 3's. I guess the price will determine if it is two or three of them.
     
  14. Jan 6, 2006 #14 of 167
    interactiveTV

    interactiveTV New Member

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    I'm not sure how the Comcast and the S3 overlap in terms of resources. I would imagine the underlying platforms are totally different with different OS and different chipsets and different features (Comcast doesn't have 6 tuners, etc)...

    My q on the 100base is if I use a 100baseT switch and have, for example, four S3 boxes, can I be streaming from each to others? I've read that with overhead, I should assume 50Mbps but that could be wrong. This is not my expertise...

    As for mid to late 2006...as usual...we shall see. Tivo doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me on this.

    _ITV
     
  15. Jan 6, 2006 #15 of 167
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    This looks great, but I really hope they don't wait until this fall to get it out the door.

    Please Tivo, don't wait on every last feature to ship. Just release a stable platform, even if it's lacking some planned/desired features, to get it in our hands. You have all year to add additional features.

    I'm sure the Tivo platform on the Motorola 6412 will be great, but this still isn't available to those in Comcast markets with SA equipment, nor will it be available to cable customers without Comcast.
     
  16. Jan 6, 2006 #16 of 167
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    the overlap on resources would simply be people with the subject matter on how the TiVo design works. eg you bring in a Java programmer to work on OCAPS port but he needs the Subject Matter Expert on what he is trying to port to work on the High and low level design with him so you still end up with a TiVo after the port.
    ah you were thinking of the in house network. Using the proper equipment in house will matter - you correctly point to using a switch. If you just use a dumb hub then many more collisions and your actual bandwidth goes down. Also using a good switch vs some bargain bin half baked one. I use netgear router/switch/cable modem as I think they have the best backplane which is the part going across all the ports where you engineer in all the efficiency.

    but all in all if you had four streams going at once your actual throughput is probably like 30Mbps though the switch will have a 100Mbps availability, but that is my network rule of thumb more to build up a robust enough network design.
    Plus of course we have no idea what Throttle TiVo will place on the streams
     
  17. Jan 6, 2006 #17 of 167
    Solon_Long

    Solon_Long New Member

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    Why in the world does it not simply have an HD capable input so that it can accept HD content from other sources than cable? If content protection is the issue then use HDCP. This is no a "standalone" tivo anymore. Why is Tivo ready to ignore a Dish/Direct market of 20 million people? Not to mention that both Sat services are getting ready to roll out the capability to send 1000 HD channels. When - if ever will cable be able to do that? Otherwise the specs on the device are fine - except that there is no reason to include an S-video output - it's a dead technology.
     
  18. Jan 6, 2006 #18 of 167
    lajohn27

    lajohn27 Fanboi.. So what?

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    Actually I read a press release that they were working to port the TIVO software to both platforms for Comcast.

    Which makes sense because the platforms are not *that* different really underneath it all.

    Heck - if PACE can build a STB that will work with either a Motorola headend or a Scientific Atlanta headend.. that should tell you that there aren't that many differences.

    J
     
  19. Jan 6, 2006 #19 of 167
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    The technology doesn't exist to do that yet in a mass-market consumer device. When a chipset manufacturer like Broadcom offers a low-cost solution with real-time H.264 encoding for high-definition, then you might see such devices, but those are probably three to five years off.

    And if content is protected with HDCP, as will become more common, it can't be recorded by an external device. That isn't going to change.
     
  20. Jan 6, 2006 #20 of 167
    nhaigh

    nhaigh Member

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    Lawrencevill...
    I'm pretty sure they are not ignoring them. I'm pretty sure that along with Comcast and a feature set that exceeds the D* and E* DVR's they hope to capture a good number of them as cable customers. They are going to capture me :)
     

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