Questions about potential MoCA setup.

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by Patrickwc, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Feb 9, 2020 #1 of 18
    Patrickwc

    Patrickwc New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Greetings Tivo Community,

    I require some of the communities expertise with a MoCA setup to ensure I am on the right track with this type of setup. Background on this is as follows: I have a TIVO Bolt 500GB DVR in our main living room. I have another new TV in our Master bedroom on the other side of the house that I would like TIVO on as well. In both the Living room and the Master bedroom, there are coax cable ports. I attempted to do the wireless route with a TIVO Mini VOX and the 5Ghz USB adapter in the Master bedroom which continually gave error messages noting it would lose the signal from the Bolt or was not connected to the network. Suffices to say it was woefully inadequate. I want to use the MoCA but I am unsure where to put the TIVO Bridge+ or bridges if more than one is needed. From reading the help on the TIVO site, it appears that I need a bridge at my router for sure. Here are my specific questions.

    1. Will I need a second bridge at the TIVO Bolt unit itself?
    2. Do I need the bridge at the router at all if the TIVO Bolt unit is connecting fine via Wi-Fi and can I just put the bridge at the Living Room Bolt to create the MoCA?
    3. Can I use the TIVO Mini VOX in the Master bedroom by just plugging in the coax to the unit once the MoCA network is up and running?

    I apologize for the long post but I am trying to provide as much information as needed. I appreciate any assistance the forum can provide.
     
  2. Feb 9, 2020 #2 of 18
    JLV03

    JLV03 Active Member

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    Where is your router located? Do you have the ability to get a direct Ethernet connection from your router to your Bolt?

    If you can get a direct Ethernet connection to the Bolt, you can use the Bolt as the MoCa bridge.

    Without an Ethernet connection, the Bolt will NOT be able to use WiFi to create a MoCa network.
     
  3. Feb 9, 2020 #3 of 18
    V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    What specific model of Bolt do you have? All Bolts, except for the Bolt "OTA" model, have built-in MoCA bridges, so you most likely already have everything you need except for a cheap POE filter.

    Your Mini already has a MoCA client built in. On your Bolt, go to the Network settings and configure MoCA as a bridge (to do this your Bolt will need both a coax AND a wired Ethernet connection). The Mini should automatically start using MoCA as soon as you disconnect any Ethernet connection from it. If your coax plant is already MoCA compatible (most likely), you can be up and running with it in less than 10 minutes..
     
  4. Feb 9, 2020 #4 of 18
    Patrickwc

    Patrickwc New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Thanks for responding. I currently don't have the means to get the Ethernet to the Bolt. My Bolt does show the option of MoCA being offered though so I know that it is possible.
     
  5. Feb 9, 2020 #5 of 18
    Patrickwc

    Patrickwc New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    I currently don't have the means to get the Ethernet to the Bolt. It sounds like, as you mentioned, I have all I need in place and I just need to find a way to get Ethernet to the Bolt to make this happen. Another question though, does the wired Ethernet need to stay in place permanently plugged in, or is this just the intial setup to configure the MoCA and then it can be removed? I appreciate the input.
     
  6. Feb 9, 2020 #6 of 18
    V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    Here is an idea for you - I do not recommend it, but I offer it for thought...

    Your Bolt must be using wired Ethernet or MoCA to communicate with the Mini over MoCA; they do not currently support wireless combined with a Mini due to worries about not enough speed to support the streaming. Perhaps you can use a wireless extender located at the Bolt to provide a wired Ethernet jack to connect the Bolt and "fake it out"? Even though the Bolt would still be connected to the internet via a wireless signal (through the extender), the MoCA Bridge in the Bolt would have high speed connection to any other MoCA device, and it would "think" it was connected to your LAN via wired Ethernet.

    Your wireless network may or may not be fast enough to support streaming to the Bolt, but that should not make any difference to the Mini with this setup.

    Another viable option for the Bolt connection to your LAN would be a powerline Ethernet adapter. And do not forget that you still need a MoCA POE filter on the cable going out of your house, either to an antenna or cable company. You do not really need it just to enable MoCA and test it (MoCA will work just fine without that filter), but you really do not want to keep MoCA operating on your cable plant without the POE filter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  7. Feb 9, 2020 #7 of 18
    V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    If you were able to install a stand-alone MoCA Bridge at your router (or anywhere else in the house where you have access to both the cable plant and a wired Ethernet connection), then the Bolt would not need any Ethernet connection at all - just set it up as a MoCA client.

    Many modern routers or cable modems have built-in MoCA Bridges that can be enabled, or there are a few low-cost options for a stand alone MoCA Bridge.
     
  8. Feb 9, 2020 #8 of 18
    fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    Yeah. The easiest path is probably going to be to put a MoCA adapter at the router and enable MOCA on the Bolt and Mini.
     
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  9. Feb 9, 2020 #9 of 18
    Patrickwc

    Patrickwc New Member

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    Great assistance! Much appreciated. Couple of things. I am currently trying V7Goose suggestion with the wireless extender. I currently have it hooked up. The Mini is telling me this:
    The TIVO box is unable to display the TV channels. This is most likely caused by a delay in loading your channel list in the Living Room. Please wait a few minutes and try again. V425
    Could this be do to the fact that the network is not fast enough to stream to the Bolt? If that solution does not work, I may go with fyodor's suggestion of the MoCa adapter at the router. If I try that, would I need an adapter at the Mini and the Bolt or could I just plug in the coax at each unit once the MoCA is created at the router?
     
  10. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    Basically, it's probably some combination of the wireless bridge not being fast enough or getting a good enough signal or the Bolt's built-in wireless not being fast enough or getting a good enough signal.

    You would only need one MoCA adapter at the router. The other two can use built-in MoCA (unless it's an OTA only Bolt)

    There are some pretty cheap options. If you're comfortable with some network wireless setup you can get the netgear combo MoCA/wireless access point below and just disable the wireless(this would give you some extra ethernet ports). Otherwise, you can find a Tivo MoCA bridge or generic MoCA adapter pretty cheaply.

    https://www.amazon.com/ACTIONTEC-WC...ments=p_72:2661618011&rnid=2661617011&sr=8-10

    TiVo Bridge ECB6000 MoCa 2.0 Adapter fast and easy multi-room setup | eBay
     
  11. Patrickwc

    Patrickwc New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Much appreciated by all who contributed. I am going to explore the MoCA adapter option at the router as this sounds as if it is going to be the best option. In the meantime, the solution that V7Goose provided with the bridge is now working and seems to be OK for the moment. I will probably use the adapter at the router anyway. Thanks to all! Great community.
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Addl MoCA adapter options >here<. (FWIW, both the BOLT and Mini VOX have standard MoCA 2.0.)

    The Internet streaming apps typically don’t require as much bandwidth as does streaming live or recorded content from a DVR to a Mini; so, the wireless bridge linking your MoCA network to your router and the Internet may be sufficient depending on the quality of the connection and demand. As a test of the wireless connection, you might try simultaneously streaming content to/through each TiVo box from whichever Internet streaming service you have a subscription, even better if you can stream 4K content if supported by the associated TV, to maximize the bandwidth usage. (Add networking from smartphones, tablets, etc. to further tax your wireless network, as desired.)

    But, yeah, it’s best to get wired whatever fixed devices can be, to preserve the wireless network for devices that have no other option.


    p.s. I missed it if it was mentioned, are you tuning cable (w/ CableCARD) or OTA antenna with your BOLT? (I expect CableCARD, given all the above, but want to be sure.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Also, if/when you’ve added a MoCA adapter at your router and you’ve switched the BOLT over to a MoCA client connection via the coax (rather than networking via the wireless bridge), you may want to review the following info should you have other Ethernet-capable devices co-located with the BOLT that would benefit from the wired network connection:

    Extending wired network connectivity via a MoCA-client TiVo DVR
     
  14. Patrickwc

    Patrickwc New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Thanks for the resources. I am tuning with Cable Card. I will file away your suggestions and certainly review the link you provided. Thanks.
     
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  15. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    You do not need ethernet to the Bolt unless you want the Bolt to be the Moca Host. You may simply just need a MoCa adapter (AKA Tivo Bridge) at the router if its not capable.

    The bolt must be set to use MoCa, not wifi.
     
  16. Patrickwc

    Patrickwc New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    I appreciate the input. I did end up using the Bolt as the MoCA host and the Mini as the client. Things seem to be working fine.
     
  17. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    I have not seen this specific message before, and I really do not know what caused it. But I SUSPECT it was just an initial delay in loading a big guide update - this is very common using even the very fastest internet connection if a TiVo has been disconnected for a while. That delay is caused by the internal database updates inside the Bolt and not by the speed of the connection. It is very unlikely that your wireless extender is at fault for this message in any way, since the Bolt will work find over its own rather slow wireless connection.

    With the setup you have now, the only thing the TiVos will use the wireless extender for is to get normal system updates from the mother ship, or to do any live streaming from an Internet source, such as Amazon. For normal TV recording and watching from either your Bolt or the Mini, nothing is pulled from the Internet at all (with the exceptions of unwanted forced commercials on TE4 and some initial program information when you first select a program). That last bit about "some initial program information" is why we occasionally see tiresome blue spinning circles of delay when the TiVo servers are overloaded or have their own Internet connection problems.

    I am really pleased that using the wireless extender to fool the Bolt into thinking it had a wired Ethernet connection worked for you. Unless you find that setup too slow for any Internet program streaming you want to do with apps on the Bolt or Mini, there is probably no reason at all to consider further changes. Your MoCA connection between the Bolt and the Mini is as fast as it ever will be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  18. Patrickwc

    Patrickwc New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Thank you again V7Goose for your assistance. Your solution seems to be working fine and my internet speeds are handling any streaming that I attempt which is not a lot. I think this setup will work just fine for my needs.
     

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