Question on output to a video scaler/processor

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by vjd3, Aug 15, 2007.

  1. vjd3

    vjd3 New Member

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    I've just purchased a DVDO VP30 video processor with an add-on deinterlacing card to connect to my 50" 720p plasma. I can use the VP30 to 1-1 pixel map to the plasma and let it do all the scaling, de-interlacing, etc.

    My question is on how to best use my HR10-250 to accomplish this ... I'd like to send the VP30 the best signal possible for the high definition programming, which I assume would be through the HDMI connection. But I also would like to be able to send it 480i for the standard definition processing so it can handle the deinterlacing instead of the HR10-250. I am guessing I have to go component to do that,

    Is there a way to accomplish this without having to switch between 720p and 480i on the box?

    The HR20 has a "native" mode which outputs whatever the channel happens to be broadcast in but I am unsure whether the HR10-250 can do this. Any thoughts?
     
  2. stevel

    stevel Dumb Blond TCF Club

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    The HR10 does not have a "native" mode. It automatically scales to whatever the output format is set to, and the composite/S-Video outputs are disabled at anything other than 480i.

    If I were you, I'd just set the HR10 to whatever resolution your TV supports and not worry about 480i sources.
     
  3. vjd3

    vjd3 New Member

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    One of the benefits to the scaler is the deinterlacing board, which should do a better job with the 480i SD material than the box can ... and, on my 50" plasma, SD is looking significantly worse than it did on my 42" ED panel.

    Sounds like I can manually switch the output to 480i and leave the screening to the VP30.
     
  4. TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    We can look at this from the helicopter view if that might help:

    There are two kinds of video that your HR10 receives, interlaced and progressive. Typically, anything that is sent to the HR10 as 720p is progressive, and anything sent to it as 1080i or 480i is interlaced. Likewise, if you set the HR10 output to interlaced (either set it to 1080i or 480i), all content, whether received as progressive or interlaced, is sent out as interlaced. And if you set the output to progressive (either 720p or 480p) all content regardless of originally i or p is sent out as progressive.

    Since there is no "native" mode in the HR10, that means that you are constantly dealing with 3 separate deinterlacer/reinterlacer/rescalers (for simplicity let's refer to them here as "rescalers"), one in the HR10, one in the standalone box, and one in the display (your display is progressive and needs to deinterlace incoming interlaced content and possibly, if different, needs to rescale it to the set's native rez).

    Since content you receive is a mix, part of the time the HR10 rescaler is either deinterlacing or reinterlacing depending upon the output setting and part of the time it isn't (although, as you say, there really is 1:1 re/de going on when it 'isn't'). You have no choice in that, but you can choose what constantly feeds your standalone box and what constantly feeds your display.

    The deinterlacing, reinterlacing and rescaling in the HR10 are all really very good, so to avoid downrezzing 1080i content, it would make sense in your scenario to set the HR10 output to 1080i, because you will be either be reinterlacing half the time or deinterlacing half the time. That assumes a 768 or 1080 native rez in your display. If it is 720, it really won't matter if you output as 720p or 1080i.

    It's important to not get caught up in mistaking received resolution from output resolution. You have no control over the first, while you do over the second, but the HR10 does such a good job of converting one to the other, that the best strategy is to pick one output rez and just stick with it. You won't help matters by matching the content rez each time, and you can easily forget which is which and end up down-rezzing 1080, which you don't want. I'd set it and forget it (except for dubs to DVDR).

    Since the standalone is designed expressly for the job of deinterlacing, reinterlacing, rescaling, that means it probably does as good a job as your display or the HR10. That would mean that it also makes sense to set the output of that box to match the native rez of that to that of your display.

    That way, the standalone does all of the heavy lifting. You can experiment with different settings, but I doubt there would be much difference in any of them, unless your plasma is more than a couple years old, which might mean deinterlacing there might not be so good as that in the HR10 or standalone.

    It also makes sense to send HDMI to the standalone and component to the set. Again you are dealing with 3 separate DACs, one in each device. We know the one in the HR10 is terrific (meaning component out is not degraded at all), and we can guess that the one in the standalone is at least that good. The one in your display is probably also very good, but we just don't know. But common sense says the one in the standalone is at least as good as the others, maybe even slightly better. If you feed HDMI to the standalone and component to the set, that puts that DAC in play only, ensuring the best PQ.

    BTW, while the HR20 does have native mode, it seems not to afford any advantage in PQ over the HR20, so that is not a reason to go there.
     
  5. Jason T

    Jason T New Member

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    Unfortunately, no.

    I am running the VP50 (just the next step up from your VP30) with it plugged into my 720p DLP front projector. I actually switch between all three resolutions (480i, 720p, 1080i) on the TiVo, to match whatever source I am watching (480i for SD, 720P for ABC, FOX, and ESPN, and 1080i for all others). This way my VP50 is doing all of the scaling and deinterlacing as needed, and you'll find it does a better job than the HR10. Especially with the ABT-102 card, you'll find your VP30 is much better at deinterlacing (I felt the VP30 was better even before the card, but after there was absolutely no question)

    Certainly, as suggested above, you could set it to one resolution and forget it. But I suspect if you spent the money on a VP30, then you might be as crazy as me and willing to switch resolutions as needed to get the best picture.

    And to answer your other question, the HR10 can send 480i over HDMI, so you can do it all via HDMI. That way you can keep your audio inputs on your VP30 free for other sources.
     
  6. newsposter

    newsposter Poster of News

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    i know zip about video processors but learned a lot here already. Are they just as good working with crt rptv or are just the benefits achieved with all the newer technologies?
     
  7. stevel

    stevel Dumb Blond TCF Club

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    The benefits of a scaler are for displays that have high native resolution, 720p or above. If your CRT-based RPTV is a HDTV, it may help if you think the scaler in the TV is not good.
     
  8. amoneys2k

    amoneys2k New Member

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    I find that the HR10 does a better job of upscaling 480i than my TV which has a native resolution of 768p. I tend to leave the HR10 on 720p or 1080i for 480i stuff (doesn't seem to make a noticeable difference which one I choose...bad looks bad. :p ). 1080i content looks slightly crisper when fed to the TV at 1080i while 720p looks slightly smoother when fed at 720p, which makes sense since it's taking one of the scaling steps out of the equation. If I feed 1080i to the TV at 720p, then the HR10 downscales to 720p and the TV upscales that to 768p. It's better to just have the TV downscale 1080i to 768p itself and cut out the middle man. Same goes for 720p.

    To swap I just have the up arrow programmed to toggle between 720p and 1080i. The difference isn't huge, but it's enough that I notice and makes it worth the extra button press. My wife on the other hand doesn't care and leaves it wherever it was last.

    BTW, the HR10 doesn't tell you what resolution it's receiving (if it does, please tell me how to view that info). But basically Fox, ESPN, and ABC are 720p and everything else HD is 1080i.
     
  9. stevel

    stevel Dumb Blond TCF Club

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    There's no way to have the HR10 tell you the recorded format.
     
  10. vjd3

    vjd3 New Member

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    Mar 14, 2002
    Thanks for the insights, guys ... great info.
     

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