QAM mapping letter campaign (HD w/o cablecard)

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by smbaker, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. Sep 20, 2007 #101 of 2121
    MickeS

    MickeS Well-Known Member

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    I thought that was the only reason they did this.
     
  2. Sep 22, 2007 #102 of 2121
    SAH2

    SAH2 New Member

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    I just received the new Fall Update on my Series 3. I noticed that my QAM channels now have 4 "?"'s after the channel number, before the "no information available" I don't recall the "?"'s being there before the update. Is this a change or am I mistaken.?
     
  3. Sep 22, 2007 #103 of 2121
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Quick, rifle through the setup menus to see if there is a QAM mapping facility.
     
  4. Sep 22, 2007 #104 of 2121
    JJ

    JJ TiVoPlantation Owner

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    visit pencilled in for Tuesday if QAM mapping is really available on TiVoHD...
     
  5. Sep 22, 2007 #105 of 2121
    frantishak

    frantishak New Member

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    I would keep my hopes high. Before winter update my channels where marked with just a number (e.g. 4.1), after winter update they became number and 'cbl' (e.g. 4.1cbl). However, nothing in functionality changed.
     
  6. Sep 22, 2007 #106 of 2121
    SAH2

    SAH2 New Member

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    I checked all of the menus and nothing seems to be there for channel mapping. Still strange about the new ????. I was really hoping this got added with the new fall season. OTA is so spotty in our location.
     
  7. Sep 23, 2007 #107 of 2121
    Jazhuis

    Jazhuis New Member

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    Sigh. I wouldn't count on it. :(

    I did finally come up with a decent business-case reasoning why manual QAM mapping would benefit TiVo, if they provided it to us. I just fear that at this point, it won't be worth the effort of bringing up.
     
  8. Sep 23, 2007 #108 of 2121
    c3

    c3 TiVoholic

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    I would immediately buy two more S3/HD units. :)
     
  9. Sep 24, 2007 #109 of 2121
    Jazhuis

    Jazhuis New Member

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    Okay, fine. Someone point this out to TiVo, then:

    (Personally) I have not opted-in to any of the data collection, because I haven't felt the need to use any of the services that request me to. However, even if I did, it would do TiVo little good, as a large chunk of their data from me would simply be associated with unknown recordings on physical QAM channels.

    Give us QAM mapping, which in turn will give TiVo more valuable data (research and marketing) from those users that do not have a Cablecard but are using digital cable through open QAM.
     
  10. Sep 24, 2007 #110 of 2121
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Different QAM tuners assign different sub-channel numbers. Before I had CableCards my S3s assigned some 3 & 4 sub channel numbers such as you get above, however my PC Fusion HDTV tuner used "normal" single digit sub-channels for the same. i.e. The S3 used something like 99.1002 while my Fusion assigned 99.3. I think the S3 is kind of screwy in it's sub-channel # assignments. In my headend spreadsheet I used to try and capture sub-channel numbers but after discovering these different tuner discrepancies I now omit the sub-channel number in my spreadsheet.
     
  11. Sep 24, 2007 #111 of 2121
    jrm01

    jrm01 New Member

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    Are you saying that the cable company does not assign the sub-channel numbers? My problem is that the Panny doesn't get half the channels now and the ones that it does get are converted to a 3-digit number (just dropping the last digit). I was going to try it on the S3 today, but my Mits just died (I hope it just the bulb).
     
  12. Sep 24, 2007 #112 of 2121
    vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    According to the display on my Westinghouse TV, it tunes to something like 110-9001 before dropping down to displaying 110-1. Doesn't make any sence to me.
     
  13. Sep 24, 2007 #113 of 2121
    billyjoebob99

    billyjoebob99 Member

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    It seems to me that there is a quick fix that TiVo could implement that would satisfy 60-90% of users. I say 60-90% based on an unscientific study of posts concerning QAM mapping.

    It appears that the majority of users are in the same boat I am. I have all local HD stations mapped properly by TiVo to the same channel as the OTA stations. In my guide I have two channels labeled 7-1(local ABC). One channel from cable that tunes perfectly with no guide data and one from the antenna the tunes for crap with guide data

    If TiVo were to simply put the guide data in QAM channels that have the same station ID as OTA channels my problems would be solved. I understand that it would not be a complete fix for everyone. I would still like the ability to manually map other QAM channels I receive like DiscoverHD. I know not all local QAM channels map correctly because of the data stream from the cable operators. But if TiVo implemented this fix they would satisfy a majority of users and put the burden on the cable operators for the rest.
     
  14. Sep 24, 2007 #114 of 2121
    frantishak

    frantishak New Member

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    billyjoebob99, couldn't agree more !
     
  15. Sep 24, 2007 #115 of 2121
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    They can assign the sub-channel #s if they choose to use cable PSIP virtual channel mapping. Absent of that mapping information, it is up to your device to count, and different devices appear to have attended different schools when they learned to count. The good news is the subchannel #s counting method is consistent within the specific device you are using so 201 won't change to 699 the next day (unless your cable company changes the stream ordering), but 201 on Sony might not be counted as 201 on Samsung or TiVo.
     
  16. Sep 24, 2007 #116 of 2121
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Yes, for my cable company all except 2 unencrypted QAM channels have no PSIP information (even most of the HD locals). So when you tune those the sub-channel numbers are somewhat arbitrary depending on the tuner you use (but each tuner is consistent with itself as you state).
     
  17. Sep 28, 2007 #117 of 2121
    velo116

    velo116 New Member

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    the sad news is I was about to go out and buy a THD tomorrow and was reading all these great things about it. But right before bed time I thought about this possible issue, and now that I know TiVo doesn't provide any support for this, I will probably not purchase tivo after all.
     
  18. Sep 28, 2007 #118 of 2121
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Just to be sure you are worried about the right thing, are you only interested in recording HD locals like FOX-HD, CBS-HD, ABC-HD, NBC-HD? If that is the case, then you are correct, this would affect you. You could get a M-Card CableCARD from your cable company and this issue wouldn't be there. If you really want no additional charge from the cable company, then QAM mapping will be important to you. There are reports that a couple of areas like Austin actually can work without CableCARD because:
    1) their cable provider uses PSIP to map the channels to the proper cable channel #s
    2) the users convinced TiVo/TiVo's guide provider to populate the channel guide info for the digital channels even if digital cable was not selected

    If you are in one of these areas, then you essentially already have automatic QAM/PSIP mapping.
     
  19. Sep 28, 2007 #119 of 2121
    velo116

    velo116 New Member

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    I just want to record the locals and the cable company has arbitrarily assigned digital channels. I'm going to call today and find out, but right now I'm just paying for basic cable and i have a feeling in order to get the cable card they are going to make me upgrade to digital.

    are there no software hacks or "homebrew" type stuff that might be able to remidy this issue?

    update: yeah I would have to pay about $40 more per month to upgrade to basic digital in order to get a cable card.
     
  20. Sep 28, 2007 #120 of 2121
    Saxion

    Saxion Substantive Member

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    Sadly, no. There was an attempt at this a few months ago...someone was investigating whether they could provide a service to modify individual user's S3 firmware images to map the QAM channels into the guide...but it never worked reliably and didn't go anywhere.
     

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