QAM mapping letter campaign (HD w/o cablecard)

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by smbaker, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. Aug 21, 2007 #41 of 2121
    Phantom Gremlin

    Phantom Gremlin Active Member

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    I also want this feature, but not badly enough to cancel over it.

    If and when you do cancel, please, please, please make it clear to TiVo exactly why. Maybe it will help them understand that this is something that a lot of people want.

    The absence of the feature has cost TiVo $500 in revenue from me alone. I would have bought an S3 a year ago but decided the box was too crippled to be worth $800. But now I bought a $300 TiVo HD because I was willing to live with the limitations for the lower price.
     
  2. Aug 21, 2007 #42 of 2121
    vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    As I read CFR, and I'm no lawyer, if the station is carried it must be on the basic tier. The requirement to be in the basic tier CAN BE READ (again) as "the requirements of this section." With the FCC's lax enforcement, I'm not really sure that thsis makes a difference.
     
  3. Aug 21, 2007 #43 of 2121
    vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    In general I agree, but it really depends on HD TV set penetration of the cable market in question. When our system was Adelphia, we didn't get NBC via cable because the station wanted to be paid for their signal. When Comcast took over, NBC showed up. I don't know if NBC gave up or Comcast decided that paying NBC allowed them to raise rates AND their "reasonable return." Nationwide their have been several faceoffs over carriage of the HD signal.
     
  4. Aug 21, 2007 #44 of 2121
    Saturn

    Saturn Lord of the Rings

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    I hadn't really thought about it before this thread, but if there was QAM mapping, I could probably save a small bundle on cable fees (enough to sub another TiVo perhaps.) Most of the stuff we watch is on the networks and I could give up my digital package and cable cards if TiVo had QAM mapping.

    I haven't tried OTA yet, but I suspect the reception isn't great around here.
     
  5. Aug 21, 2007 #45 of 2121
    jrm01

    jrm01 New Member

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    The rings would interfere with OTA.
     
  6. Aug 21, 2007 #46 of 2121
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    I can only speak from my own personal experience, but I purchased my HDTV back in December. I did a channel scan and it picked up the local HD networks and displayed them using the correct OTA channel numbers, because the PSIP is configured correctly for those channels. That's been almost 9 months, and nothing has changed, moved, or become unwatchable.

    Yes, I realize other people have different experiences, but I think my experience here will become more of the norm, if what people are saying is true that the cablecos are required to pass through the PSIP that the network affiliates provide unaltered.

    That's why I propose two mechanisms: 1) if something on cable shows up with a channel number in PSIP that matches an OTA network station, automatically assume the OTA guide data goes with that channel (perhaps with a confirmation by the user), and 2) add a manual mapping for those whose networks are not showing up with the correct PSIP data (with an appropriate disclaimer that the channel may move)
     
  7. Aug 21, 2007 #47 of 2121
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention his OTA broadcasts will be showing up significantly later than the rest of us on Earth, so his Tivo won't record his programs on time. I'm sorry 'Saturn', but Tivo is not for you!!!!
     
  8. Aug 21, 2007 #48 of 2121
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    I'm convinced that there would be even more people in this situation were it not for the fact that a lot of people don't realize they receive the local networks in HD via their cable service, because the cablecos have gone to great lengths to make this knowledge non-obvious.

    When I first bought my first HDTV back in December, I talked to the local reps at circuit city, best buy, and a rep for comcast. Not a one of them mentioned to me that I could simply plug the set in, do a channel scan, and receive HD channels. All of them told me to buy digital cable from the cable company. All of them (including the comcast rep) told me to avoid paying extra for an HDTV that had a cablecard slot because cablecards 'didn't work right'.

    Finally, like you I have relatives that would upgrade to a THD if it would work with unencrypted QAM. My relatives (like me) feel that they already pay too much for cable and aren't going to pay any extra monthly fees. People are willing to give Tivo an extra $250-$300 to upgrade to a THD, but there's such psychological hatred of the cable companies that they aren't willing to voluntarily give a cableco a single cent more than they have to. [their hatred of cable cos is only second to their hatred of oil cos :)]
     
  9. Aug 22, 2007 #49 of 2121
    JJ

    JJ TiVoPlantation Owner

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    QAM mapping
    of some sort should be a TiVo feature. Locally Comcast provides PSIP mapping for the 'big four' networks. MyNetwork, CW, WTBS, and PBS seem to be drifting around based on the whims of Comcast. Drifting channels make it necessary to rescan every month or two. This bit of annoyance is possibly why so many don't/won't use the tuner they have to watch the channels they already get.

    As pointed out the retailers/providers do not willingly provide information related to receiving clear digital channels. Meanwhile Comcast locally continues to convert more and more analogue basic channels to digital in an effort to rent more boxes...
     
  10. Aug 22, 2007 #50 of 2121
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    If there is PSIP channel mapping info for all your locals then the QAM mapping can be completely automated (for your locals) and there can be 2 scans, quick scan and full scan.

    Full scan does what you expect and would pick up any new channels. It would be run manually or once every N weeks.

    Quick scan can be run once (or twice) a day and what it does is tune each channel with PSIP channel mapping and verify the channel is still where it is expected. If not it should trigger full scan.
     
  11. Aug 22, 2007 #51 of 2121
    lickwid

    lickwid Member

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    Not sure if this is relevant at all, probably not. But I was in the same boat as most of you guys, but I got Comcast to add Cablecards to my account without having to upgrade to a digital package. They'll be adding $1.79 for the 2nd card to my high speed internet bill. Note I currently get expanded basic cable through my HOA, through Comcast, as well as high speed internet directly through Comcast.

    So my situation is slightly different.

    I WAS using QAM channels with my TivoHD unit for the past few weeks and have been frustrated that I also had to manually records HD shows. But for $1.79 a month, I can't complain.
     
  12. Aug 22, 2007 #52 of 2121
    Saxion

    Saxion Substantive Member

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    That's a great (and unusual) deal. Did you have to pay for a truck roll?
     
  13. Aug 22, 2007 #53 of 2121
    c3

    c3 TiVoholic

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    It's not that unusual. Available in the San Francisco Bay Area and many other Comcast markets. ~$16 for the truck roll.

    Even though I don't need more TiVos, I would buy two or more TiVoHDs if I don't need to get CableCards, simply because I don't want to pay the additional outlet charges to Comcast.
     
  14. Aug 22, 2007 #54 of 2121
    lickwid

    lickwid Member

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    By truck roll, I'm assuming you mean a service call charge. And yes, I believe it's $15.99 which is kind of ridiculous. Hopefully he'll come out with an M-Card, so I won't have to pay any monthly fee at all.

    I'm also located in the SF Bay Area, Fremont specifically. Anyone know if M-Cards are rolling out here yet?

    And not sure if it's allowed to be discussed here, but has anyone been fortunate enough to get the installer to keep the "Digital Classic" channels on. I'd like to get ESPN HD, TNT HD etc., without having to pay the additional $12 a month. According to the Comcast rep, if I wanted to add the "Digital Classic" package later, an installer would have to come out and remove the filters...
     
  15. Aug 22, 2007 #55 of 2121
    c3

    c3 TiVoholic

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    No way. There are no filters for digital channels. Unless the channels are not encrypted, you need to have subscription to receive those channels.
     
  16. Aug 22, 2007 #56 of 2121
    mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    For me, most of my cable channels do show up this way.. e.g. KTVU 2 is 2.1, KPIX 5 is 5.1, KGO 7 is 7.1... but NBC is 33.1 instead of 3.1.

    Is Comcast just screwing up the NBC one, or is there some other explanation how they can be 'mostly' right?
     
  17. Aug 22, 2007 #57 of 2121
    MickeS

    MickeS Well-Known Member

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    I think the post you replied to was talking about the OTA channel numbers vs cable channel numbers, not the analog vs digital channel numbers.
     
  18. Aug 23, 2007 #58 of 2121
    Saxion

    Saxion Substantive Member

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    I didn't mean the cost; I meant being able to lease CableCARDs without any digital cable subscription package. I and many others have tried getting CableCARDs in this situation, with no luck.
     
  19. Aug 23, 2007 #59 of 2121
    Phantom Gremlin

    Phantom Gremlin Active Member

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    Yet another great argument. It's hard to understand why TiVo just couldn't have hired an intern for the summer to hack in a mapping screen. It would have been done by now.

    Sometimes TiVo behaves with the arrogance of Steve Jobs. They know what's best for us and they're not about to give us a QAM setup screen or a free space indicator. The slight problem is the marketroids at TiVo aren't Jobs. Instead they have proven themselves over and over to be astonishingly inept.
     
  20. Aug 23, 2007 #60 of 2121
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    He didn't just mean cost. Bay Area offers CableCARDs at that price with just limited basic subscription. There are other parts of the country which don't do this, but I wouldn't call either situation rare. However we cannot get DVR from Comcast w/o adding expanded basic and digital classic, except in rare cases where someone sneaks it past the gatekeeper.
     

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