QAM mapping letter campaign (HD w/o cablecard)

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by smbaker, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. Aug 16, 2007 #21 of 2121
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Automatic QAM mapping that deals with MSO assignment changes is hard.

    Basic manual mapping (like the Sony DHG series) is easy, if not trivial, all things considered.
     
  2. Aug 20, 2007 #22 of 2121
    Saxion

    Saxion Substantive Member

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    Another simple thing people can do is fill out this TiVo suggestion form. Both writing letters and filling out this web form are good ways to get TiVo's attention. Please consider voicing your opinion using one or both methods.
     
  3. Aug 20, 2007 #23 of 2121
    MickeS

    MickeS Well-Known Member

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    I have written TiVo regarding this before. I'll write them again, just in case. :)
     
  4. Aug 20, 2007 #24 of 2121
    MediaLivingRoom

    MediaLivingRoom New Member

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    I would sign it!!
     
  5. Aug 20, 2007 #25 of 2121
    GoHokies!

    GoHokies! O2->CO2 Converter

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    Actually, the last time that this was discussed, I think that someone had a source that disproved this. Yes, they are required to feed you stations available OTA, but they are not required to provide them in HD.

    JFH3 hit the nail on the head, though. These clear QAM channels move around in a lot of areas. Since your Tivo has no way of knowing when that happens, every time it does, you're going to be recording the wrong channel. Given that there is no way to easily support this type of mapping, I think that they should leave it alone and save themselves an avalanche of "My show didn't record properly" support calls caused by something that is completely out of their control.
     
  6. Aug 20, 2007 #26 of 2121
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    My vote would be to start by putting in a manual mapping function that those who understand the risks can use and then work toward a more robust/PSIP solution.
     
  7. Aug 20, 2007 #27 of 2121
    ericr74

    ericr74 Member

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    I'm on board with this request big time. It seems like an easy way for TiVo to add a lot of value to their product. I'm unwilling to pay Comcast an additional $17/month just so I can watch the local HD stations, which it already provides free with my expanded basic package (already $49/month).

    I'm ready to buy a TiVoHD as soon as TiVo adds a remapping feature (whether automatic or manual).
     
  8. Aug 20, 2007 #28 of 2121
    vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    I don't think the CFR is specific about HD. As I read it, IF they carry the local broadcast stations, they must make them available. However I believe that the current must-carry regs apply only to analog. Broadcast TV, the cable industry, and the FCC are still wrangling with this one.
     
  9. Aug 20, 2007 #29 of 2121
    vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    The TivoHD ads showing up on our Tivos still say that cablecard is required for digital cable reception. Of course they'd probably say that whether or not Tivo was working on it.
     
  10. Aug 20, 2007 #30 of 2121
    Slime

    Slime New Member

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    This is something thats stopping me purchasing a 2nd Tivo S3...

    I get over 30 digital channels via QAM. I have a vizio TV that pulls them straight off the cable connection and integrates them into my normal channel line up, so I have channels such as 4, 4.1, 5, 5.1, 5.2 etc... I dont see why Tivo cant do the same.

    I dont want to get Cable Cards for the 2nd Tivo, but I would like to record the main network stuff in HD for a 2nd room... it seems a huge oversight to not make this work correctly.
     
  11. Aug 20, 2007 #31 of 2121
    Koan

    Koan Member

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    Regardless of whether cable companies are required to carry local broadcast stations in HD, I would think it is to their advantage to do so. They need only to look at the number of limited basic subscribers in areas with strong OTA signals to get an idea of how much business they could lose as more households purchase high definition televisions.
     
  12. Aug 20, 2007 #32 of 2121
    Saxion

    Saxion Substantive Member

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    I personally know 3 people that would buy a TiVoHD if it fully supported local digital channels over cable w/o CableCARDs: my mom, my dad, and my best friend's parents. All of them: 1) own HD sets, 2) subscribe to "expanded" (analog) cable, 3) watch the local HD channels over unencrypted QAM, 4) have no interest in putting up an antenna, and 5) have no interest in paying the cable company one red cent to be able to record what they already receive today.

    How many sales is TiVo willing to loose here? Given their tenacious financial position, they don't have the luxury of leaving any sales on the table by neglecting this feature.
     
  13. Aug 20, 2007 #33 of 2121
    ericr74

    ericr74 Member

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    TiVoPony? Someone? :) I'll write TiVo a love letter today if they promise to deliver this feature soon. The love letter will be in the form of a box fee and a three-year subscription for a TiVoHD.
     
  14. Aug 20, 2007 #34 of 2121
    vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    About whose problem this is: TQM (Total Quality Mangement) was popular in the early to mid 1990's (and may still be popular).

    Part of TQM talks about finding the root cause of a problem, which is sometimes not so easily determined as people tend to stop at the first blocking point. In this case the problem is not being able to obtain program scheduling information about digital cable channels without a cable card. The cause is a system _apparently_ designed to receive digital cable systems only with a cablecard. The fact that it can tune clear QAM signals does not mean it was designed with this capability in mind.

    Alternatively, perhaps it was designed to allow the customer to map clear QAM channels to channel they should see. The CFR implies that for instance, my local channel OTA 7.1 should show up on a clear QAM tuner as 7.1. It is so in some systems, but not in either of the two systems I have experience with (one Comcast, one Time-Warner). Perhaps the feature is sitting there ready for when the cable companies start setting up their system correctly. Perhaps Tivo has enough cable company issues on their hands with cablecards and didn't want to complicate issues by talking about systems that didn't use cablecards.

    Another part talks about "owning" a problem. Regardless of who caused the problem, if its a problem for you, then its your problem.

    IF, repeat, IF, Tivo thinks that the lack of QAM tuning is a problem, then perhaps they are want to fix it. Maybe they are talking with cable companies.

    It may be low on their list of things to worry about. That doesn't mean it's not on the list.
     
  15. Aug 20, 2007 #35 of 2121
    vman41

    vman41 Omega Consumer

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    I wonder how hard it would be to make a 'diagnositc' cable card that would provide fixed mappings for the clear QAM channels, programmable with a memory card?
     
  16. Aug 20, 2007 #36 of 2121
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Pretty hard. :) (Not realistic, even if possible)

    FAR easier to do it in the Tivo code.
     
  17. Aug 20, 2007 #37 of 2121
    frantishak

    frantishak New Member

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    Dec 7, 2006
    I personally know few more who will cancel their TiVo subscription, unless QAM remapping suddenly shows up within next few months. Those people used to have decent OTA reception, moved, and now are stuck w/o guide data ...
     
  18. Aug 20, 2007 #38 of 2121
    vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    For your evening entertainment:

    Section 614.b(8) of Title 47 CFR states “IDENTIFICATION OF SIGNALS CARRIED.--A cable operator shall identify, upon request by any person, the signals carried on its system in fulfillment of the requirements of this section.”

    You can read this to say that the cable companies have to provide clear QAM channels assignments, which, in turn, would make it easier for Tivo, Inc to automatically map your channels for you. Good Luck!
     
  19. Aug 20, 2007 #39 of 2121
    GoHokies!

    GoHokies! O2->CO2 Converter

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    You can, if "the requirements of this section" include a requirement to carry clear QAM HD versions of the local broadcast channels.
     
  20. Aug 20, 2007 #40 of 2121
    MickeS

    MickeS Well-Known Member

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    I think that will be me in a few weeks. :(
     

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