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Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by smbaker, Aug 16, 2007.
What are they now?
Search this thread for "privacy mode".
And if this was important enough, perhaps they would have done that.
Oh THAT waiver. Sorry, my confusion. I was only thinking about the full encryption waiver, such as the one that Cablevision got this past week, for some communities in the Bronx.
Not really. If the majority of people having QAM issues are here (presumably they are, otherwise they wouldn't see this thread at all)... then we can tally them. That's all I'm suggesting. No need to go off into a nationwide search.
Again, it's moot because:
Not true... Comcast is rolling out in my area very agressively. You must have a DTA box from them now to receive any channels at all. Beverly, where my friend lives, just had this happen, and he has boxes now. I was told that my area (Gloucester) would have this happen by the end of the year. Comcast is planning to do this throughout their entire service area.
As for the legality of this, I wrote to the FCC and they have confirmed that the waiver allows them to encrypt ALL channels, including the local QAM channels. This is why they had to ask for the waiver in the first place (otherwise it would have run afoul of the Telecom Act).
Fair enough... if you can get thousands upon thousands of people to log in and express their dissatisfaction about QAM mapping here, in this thread, that would be interesting. The thing that folks, lamely trying to make a point based on ridiculously inadequate sourcing of data, try to do is post a "Yes" versus "No" poll and then try to say something about the percentages. A meaningful poll, in this context, would have one vote: "Yes" -- and you'd need to compare the number of "Yes" votes to the total number of TiVo S3 and TiVo HD units, which is probably a number we could get for you.
The owner of a small cable system in the midwest (I forget the name) reported on tivo.com help forum that he personnally spent several weeks trying to get TribMediaSvce to publish the clear-QAM channels for his system. He was repeatedly told that TMS uses sub-channel identification for OTA channels but their software does not support it for cable listings and they had no interest in making the modification. He eventually gave up.
And this is not true for all areas, at least the part about having to get a DTA to receive *any* channels. Comcast is not encrypting the basic (local channel) tier in the ATL, nor do they have plans to do so regardless of what the waiver allows. They are only encrypting the old SD expanded basic tier on QAM for the DTAs, which is temporarily available in the clear before an area is migrated.
So, you will (for now) be able to receive the locals in HD and SD on clear QAM until they change their policy. Check the Comcast Portland/Seattle threads on BBR or AVS if you want confirmation.
The point is that there won't be thousands of thousands of people posting here... the numbers will show that it IS a small number of people. Sorry you couldn't connect the dots, but in a sense, I'm on your side with this matter, even if it sucks for those still dealing with it. Furthermore, as I have also stated, it's all moot since the waivers allow them to encrypt these channels "soon" anyway... so having this capability now is a bit too late/moot.
Not sure what your problem is with me, but whatever... maybe you just need to practice a little reading comprehension as well? And get off your high-horse while your at it.
I have conversations with Comcast (Executive Support) that they are going to all-digital (no analog). Because of this, they require any TV to have a DTA box. The FCC basically said this was ok, as long as the little DTA boxes are provided for free (no additional cost):
The last paragraph, to me, means that they are permitted to encrypt the basic service tier, as long as they provide the DTA boxes for free... which is what Comcast plans to do in my region, at least. Am I reading something wrong with the statements from Comcast and the FCC?
Correct. Indeed the vast majority -- not all, but the vast majority -- of folks who would be inclined to respond would be people who are pissed off about the issue. That goes back to what I said earlier, which you asked me about.
Sorry, but no: Even if you think that the numbers would "side" against QAM mapping, that is not "my side". "My side" is the side of reality and truth. Abusing numbers to prove something I believe is no better than abusing number to prove something I don't believe.
Get over yourself. Only fools would be convinced by your feigned indignation, given the context of some previous discussions you've participated in.
Yes, those statements do not indicate that they will encrypt the basic tier in all areas. They might, but right now they aren't, and the proof is in the results for the areas that have already been migrated. Locals are still in the clear.
Agreed - my friend hasn't lost analog "yet"... because they haven't switched it off. Comcast is doing this to prevent problems when they switch off, and so that they can make sure the DTAs are all in and working properly first.
My other friend (another part of MA), however, is already all-digital with Comcast. He cannot get ANY analog channels without a cable box or DTA box (he has only 1 TV, so he chose the cable box route). Direct-connecting the TV gets him nothing at all.
Comcast is calling this "Project Cavalry", which is further detailed here: http://www.multichannel.com/blog/BI...ject_Cavalry_The_March_of_28_Million_DTAs.php
Note how the article states "The idea: to eliminate 40-50 analog channels in a cable system, freeing up 250-300 MHz of spectrum, by giving basic cable subs who won’t upgrade to a digital tier a cheap “digital terminal adapter” to convert digital TV signals to analog. (DTAs have also been called “digital-to-analog” devices.)"
Contrary to this, I see (from http://www.multichannel.com/article/294767-Comcast_Expands_Project_Cavalry_In_Northern_N_J_.php):
"All told, Comcast will be eliminating the analog standard expanded basic channels -- generally, channels in the 26 through 99 range - while continuing to deliver limited basic channels in analog, which include local broadcast stations like ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox and PBS, shopping channels, Univision and various public access and government channels."
This doesn't address QAM, but implies there may still be some basic analog provided anyway? Needless to say, even people asking on Comcast's forums aren't getting a straight answer about ClearQAM here: http://blog.comcast.com/2009/05/going-all-digital-tons-more-hd-and-a-faster-internet.html
Again, based on what I was told by Exec Support at Comcast, QAM channels will be encrypted as well. But now, I don't know if I believe her anymore...
EDIT: Looks like the Comcast Blog page I listed does tell us that QAM will not be encrypted after all... this is further supported by their FAQ page here: http://digitalnow.comcast.com/FAQs.aspx?map=all_faq_map
So, you need a more complicated setup (unless you have two RF inputs on your TV to work with)... of course, Tivos don't, so they would not be able to use this method.
I guess, with that, QAM would remain available... which means QAM mapping is certainly something that will continue to hold value in some areas (again, I refer to my friend who says he can't get any analog/QAM... I may have to ask him again!)
Although I do believe that analog will go away for good eventually, I don't believe that the local QAM channels will be encrypted, at least not right away. Perhaps that will happen as the local analogs are retired, but I can say that in the ATL the locals are still available in analog after the current expanded basic migration. They're just moving the 40-50 expanded basic channels to digital as mentioned, and are only encrypting those channels in QAM.
I don't hold that much faith in my cableco, but at least we are being told "for now" that QAM locals will remain unencrypted, as well as the "antenna replacement plan" channels in analog (local channels).
Seems Executive Support doesn't even know that locals will remain unencrypted... but I'll admit, I do like my cablecards now...
Digital local broadcast channels must remain in Clear QAM by law, unless a specific waiver is granted by the FCC. The blanket waiver granted to some recent DTAs does not allow for encryption of local broadcast channels...that was only a waiver for separable security, which is a different issue. There have only been a small number of waivers granted for encryption of local broadcast channels in specific markets, and those were very narrowly granted (ex: due to unusually high levels of cable service theft) and/or came with significant concessions (ex: free CableCARDs and/or free cable boxes for all affected users).
I just wanted to chime in to say that I also desperately want this. I don't expect it to be automatic, I just want to manually match up the ClearQAM channel with a guide channel. If it changes frequently, then I'll manually change it frequently. I'm working on getting a CableCARD but I get my cable through a university and I doubt they'll be able to provide one. It's good to see that there are so many other people out there that also want this.
This bears repeating:
It would be great -- assuming TiVoPony is still reading this thread (doubtful) -- if we could get an update on whether or not any of this has changed from TiVo's perspective. I don't see any reason to believe that it has changed.
It looks like some of the QAM channels have been moved around since I last did a scan, but all the basics are there in original digital standard def or downcoverted HD, not just the locals. A few years back when I tried cable cards from Comcast, I got nothing but grief. Was always having to call and get them re-authorized. Then they started charging me extra outlet charges for the second cable card.That's when I said enough and turned them in. Don't really watch that much TV, but when I do I only need a few shows: Daily Show(cable), 24(OTA), Sons of Anarchy(cable), Fringe(OTA), Rescue Me(cable), Weather Channel for winter weather, sometimes a cable news channel. That's about it. If I could just map about 5 -10 channels I would be in business.
I just signed-up for Basic Cable on TWC and my S3 'sees' the clear-QAM channels but doesn't have any guide data for them. If I also agree to rent 2 cablecards will those channels work properly? I'd still be spending a lot less than Expanded Basic so I wouldn't complain about the added cost.
With a cable card you will not see the X.YY ch as they will be remapped to numbers without dots in them. For me as example CBS-HD I can get at ch 3.1without cable cards but when the cable cards were installed CBS-HD came in at ch 233. You will than get the guide data also.