QAM mapping letter campaign (HD w/o cablecard)

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by smbaker, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. fallingwater

    fallingwater New Member

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    Dec 28, 2007
    Bellingham WA

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    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7650911#post7650911
    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7658112#post7658112

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17699310#post17699310

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17701932#post17701932
     
  2. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Yes generally. I was just clarifying the earlier statement that, stand-alone, maybe have been misconstrued by a casual reader. You're correct about what you meant by what you were saying. :up:
     
  3. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    Cable systems are using DTA to encrypt expanded basic channels. It looks like the clear QAM channels won't be much more then broadcast stations. Looks like the potential market for QAM mapping will be customers who only want broadcast channels but are in a location or situation that doesn't lend itself to OTA reception. Doesn't sound like a big market to me.
     
  4. cogx

    cogx Member

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    True enough and we all know this hope of this thread died over 3 years ago after the very first post. It's just sad that the "greatest CE device ever made" couldn't do something so simple from the outset. For the $1000 I paid to get the Series 3 the day it was released... I honestly don't think I've got my money's worth. I can't even get Netflix streaming to work properly, even though my Xbox 360 plugged into the same switch running Cat5e to my router has never had a problem with it; but that's for an entirely different thread.
     
  5. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    To be clear, though, the point someone made earlier is that it is a lesser form of encryption. (However, I don't think that really matters -- it isn't like it is legal to break the encryption, nor is it possible to buy a device that supports the lesser form of encryption, while you can buy a device that support the stronger form of encryption.)

    The regulated portion of the service -- the portion of the service that is considered a public utility. This is consistent with non-legacy competitors in the industry.
     
  6. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    Bicker--Maybe I'm being cynical, but I think asking for permission to use the "privacy" mode was a way to request a waiver without directly asking for a repeal of the separable security rules. I have little doubt if the "privacy" mode is cracked a request will be made to the FCC to allow use of full decryption. At least some of the boxes are capable of "regular" decryption and PPV.

    Maybe the compromise will wind up only requiring separable security with HD and DVR boxes.
     
  7. jrm01

    jrm01 New Member

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    Pittsburgh
    Not here in Pittsburgh suburbs. Last month Comcast moved 13 channels from analog to digital and began giving out 2 DTAs for free. When I did a rescan on my TiVo HD (no cablecards) I now not only have the local HD channels, but 70 digital channels free and clear. Of course they are all on hard to find channels, 38-12 etc., but they are there.
     
  8. Phantom Gremlin

    Phantom Gremlin Active Member

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    Tualatin,...
    Enjoy it while you can. You will lose access to all but HD locals in a few months. The same has happened all around the country on a rolling basis. E.g. here is a posting from the middle of our local HD thread on AVS Forum, after Comcast started encrypting the digital channels.
     
  9. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    You are being cynical. The waiver represents a compromise: The alternative would have been to move some of the service to a higher tier, thereby forcing more subscribers to have STBs instead of DTAs. In the end, without the waiver, both the industry and its customers would have lost a little bit. With the waiver, with specific limitations with regard to in which cases it is permitted to be used, everyone gets a little.
     
  10. jrm01

    jrm01 New Member

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    Oh that would not surprise me at all. I very well expect them to disappear soon.
     
  11. rdauenhauer

    rdauenhauer New Member

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    Wow I read way more of this thread than I expected and come to the end hoping for a revelation :mad: I guess Im disappointed.
    lew I dont know where you are in the country but I wouldn't call the Greater Seattle Metro area a small market. Here the topography and forestation (not to mention the weather) make OTA reception sketchy at best.
    I too got fed up with Comcast charging me too much for too few usefull channels, the last straw was receiving a letter recently advising me that the 2nd cable card Id received 2 yrs earlier was now going to be charged monthly at their STB rate. When I argued that wasn't reasonable since It didn't provide equivalent features (On demand PPV) I was told thats policy.:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
    So I dumped them in lue of a roof top antenna only to find too few channels viewable. So I started reading, learned of QAM reconected my cable, rescanned via the Tivo and WALA!
    After three yrs sinice this topic was introduced you'd think Tivo's could have progressed on a number of projects QAM mapping included.
    Hey TivoPony you still out there...?
     
  12. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    He provided a very definitive answer for you, rdauenhauer. No one is saying that you're wrong to want what you want. What TiVo has said, in no uncertain words, is that there simply isn't enough demand for what you want. The depth of your own desire doesn't give it more weight -- each potential customer gets conceptually one vote. And what TiVo has said is essentially that while the idea remains on their priority list, it is so far down below other things that other people want so much more that we shouldn't expect to see this feature introduced anytime soon.

    Now that doesn't necessarily mean that it won't magically happen. However, it isn't reasonable to expect there to be "progress" on your personal favorite project given what TiVo has already said about it. Sorry.
     
  13. schwinn

    schwinn Member

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    Sep 18, 2004
    Maybe what people here can do is setup a "petition" or poll to simply count how many people are interested in this feature... that would shed light on the numbers we're dealing with... and let the people here see what the real need is for this feature, versus the published subscriber numbers.

    Granted, I expect this won't yield a satisfactory answer, since only a very limited number of people are here, from the total subscriber base... but, it would be informative, if nothing else.

    That being said, I would have voted for it anyway, as I wanted that feature before. However, now that I have cable cards (for $1.50 or $0... haven't gotten my first bill yet)... I certainly don't "need" it. Still, it was annoying that I had to get CCs to get access to QAM... I wish this were mentioned on the device box or instructions, rather than finding out through this forum or through Tivo.com support (afterwards).

    Of course, all of this is kinda moot these days anyway - pretty much every cableco has been granted encryption waivers on QAM... so any such feature is likely short lived.

    Sad that Tivo didn't see QAM mapping as a need from the start... particularly since everyone else does it already.
     
  14. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Maybe you can actually read the thread you're responding to. If you had read it, from the beginning -- heck, even just the title of the thread -- you wouldn't have posted such a silly suggestion.
     
  15. schwinn

    schwinn Member

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    WTF?

    The OP suggestion was to write a letter to Tivo. That's fine, but only tivo knows the number of such requests.

    My statement was to provide a way for us (ie, the users) to see the "count" of such requests. This way we can see what the true-quantities are.

    Lastly, I stated that it's a pretty moot point now that waivers have been granted, so I wonder if any effort is worth it at all.

    I don't know what your problem is with anything I said above...
     
  16. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    And I don't think they're going to share the number, except to say what they said, that it is a very small number. However, it is the only thing close to reliable information that we can possibly get.

    There is no such way, short of spending tens of thousands of dollars to have normalized survey conducted.

    I've only seen waivers granting service providers the ability to encrypt basic service for six or seven communities, total, nationwide.

    The assertion that a non-normalized poll or petition can actually provide any real information. They cannot. Generally, the purpose of non-normalized polls is to deceive and/or manipulate. They have no other practical purpose.
     
  17. vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    Martinsville...
    The FCC could easily direct cable companies to publish their clear QAM listings, which would automatically flow into the appropriate databases, allowing Tivo to populate card less Tivos with very, very little effort by Tivo and negligible cost to everybody involved. CFR actually talks about channel Line-up cards, but does not discuss them in context with non-scrambled digital signals. There are several possible reasons why the FCC has not addressed this issue, none of them flattering to the FCC.
     
  18. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    Do the cable systems need to get a waiver to use the privacy mode on DTAs to encrypt extended basic channels? I thought the waiver obtained by the DTA mfg waiver was sufficient.

    My point is encrypting chananels like TNT and USA greatly reduce the number of customers interested in maping clear QAM.

    Peope interested in recording clear QAM stations should consider Moxi or a PC based solution.

    The possibility of an increasing number of cable systems getting permission to encrypt even basic broadcast stations further reduces the already extremely small chance of tivo mapping QAM stations.

    Vstone--your point is'nt relevent. A couple of posters are in private cable systems. Their system is willing to make the listings available. The problem is Tribune doesn't provide the information.
     
  19. aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

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    Jan 23, 2002
    Philadelphia...
    I think the current rule is that they can't roll out any box (or maybe it's just any "new" box) that does decryption, unless that box does its decryption with a CableCARD. Because DTAs don't have CableCARDs in them, they are not allowed to do decryption. Therefore, any channel that they want the DTA to receive cannot be encrypted. It is, of course, up to them which channels they want the DTA to be able to receive.

    It's possible that either the rules have changed, or waivers to the CableCARD-only policy are easy to come by.
     
  20. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    The rules have changed.
     

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