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Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by mmf01, May 12, 2018.
Yeah, we had a whole discussion about that a few days ago beginning here.
I just read all 4 pages of this thread and IMHO I will keep using my two TiVos and Minis until a problem comes up, the TOS means nothing until a problem comes up, I have one Bolt Plus and one Roamio, both with Hyda, My only other option is the Comcast DVRs. If I was starting without any DVRs the Comcast DVR option would have to be looked into, if in 10 years or so I have to go the Comcast DVR so be it, the loss of the TiVo investment will not force me to sell my home or not eat, and at this time my Comcast package includes one Comcast DVR, so I turn my cable card and get the Comcast DVR at no extra cost. Replacing the Minis (and the other DVR) will cost me something with Comcast. Nothing much last forever in electronics.
My point is that these are the rules we've always lived under; TiVo can take away service like the Series 1 or features like multiple Season Passes for a program any time they want, and our only recourse for a long time has been arbitration by somebody in the pay of TiVo. (Although read through the story of the guy in England how brought a suit against TiVo if you want to feel better about arbitration.)
Nothing lasts forever. I intend to enjoy my TiVos as long as they work, and migrate to whatever comes next just as I migrated from BetaMax VCRs when the time came; I hope with better grace than some of the whiners in forums other than TCF. (I would never disparage anyone on TCF; at least not until my last warning expires.)
I take this slight change in the UA is likely to cover TiVo far better because of a looming End Of Support for the S3 DVR's, of which there are still more than a few out there. I have three S3's doing work in my situation. They are key in our set-up of mulit-room along with S4 and S5. I would be a very big loss if S3 were abruptly put to EOL by TiVo. I have not upgraded to S6 because for us it is unnecessary and the new pricing for All-in too expensive.
Of course, the new UA does mean that TiVo can begin major deprecation of the S3's such as killing network transfers when they feel like it, and there is NOTHING any of us can expect in return. Also, the UA makes it clear that we should not expect anything in return if TiVo abandons the S3, while in the past, TiVo had been willing to offer a somewhat affordable upgrade path. Don't expect such a path at all now. I really hope I am wrong because the S3's are still very well performing DVR's, and can still interact or be useful in a home LAN with later gen TiVo's--and I use my S3's a lot.
I really think this TiVo turning the corner, the first step to completely either selling or just shutting down all TiVo DVR portion of the business, including MSO's. This latest push on the retail front was unexpected, but clearly represents TiVo giving it one last good try before calling it quits on retail, and the result has NOT been encouraging.
The new UA is not only in preparation of killing all S3's, it can also be seen as the necessary step before killing ALL retail TiVo's everywhere, like the Douwd and the Husnock. Once TiVo turns out the lights on retail (and their new partners may do so in short order), they have this new UA to protect themselves and anyone who dares to counter legally can only do so through Arbitration, forget the far more considerate public courts.
None of those OTT MVPD's are making any money, and it will be years before they do, and they will probably be just as expensive as the traditional cable and sat before they start making money, but before that time, some new tech for in-home entertainment will be the shiny new thing, and less expensive.
Except that: TiVo_Ted has said, here, that the new, revised terms are for purchases from here (as of May 18) on out, not backwards looking as to earlier purchases; and, if TiVo wanted grounds to EOL a TiVo Series, some people believe that TiVo always has had the grounds (I disagree), in the "we can change the terms of this agreement" language that's appeared in the various agreements in the past and now going forward--but that language certainly can be seen as allowing TiVo to eliminate features.
I have seen variations of this theory for 18 years. With the exception of soaring dialup network costs, Series 3 boxes are not a huge cost for us since we are no longer testing software releases on them. There is no business case to justify EOL'ing them now. I don't see the logic behind your speculation here.
Also, why would we retroactively kill a feature like network transfers? Our service agreement all the way back to Series 2 has stated that we have the right to do this if we want. But, we haven't. We changed over from transfering to streaming in our latest release, but we did not remove the feature from old boxes. So, what makes you think we would do this now?
See my post earlier: Ever since the merger people have been predicting doom and gloom. Some were even predicting it BEFORE the merger, based on rumors about Rovi. Some people just like being unhappy.
Hell, people have been predicting doom and gloom since the days Replay was going to eat TiVo's lunch!
Which doesn't mean doom won't happen. But it does mean I'm a lot more likely to wait and see if it DOES happen than just take somebody's word for it...
Predictions aside, I am unhappy about the guide descriptions which waste a lot of space with bloviating words that are not needed. I am also unhappy unhappy about the GUI direction which also wastes a lot of space. Those are not predictions but fact.
While I think that a lot of these worries are a bit dramatic, could you maybe address PC push transfers being broken on Encore for the last year or two? It was something useful we had that was retroactively killed, as you say, and there is natural concern of pull transfers going away too.
As Rob mentioned, there have been "dire concerns" since day 1--it took me awhile to get my first TiVo box (a Series 2) over the concern as to whether TiVo would still be around after more than a few years, to provide the needed service for it. Not unjustifiable, it seems to me, in a newly-created tech. field and with a startup company.
But, everything needs to be kept in its proper proportion.
Yeah, the guide descriptions are over the top...we laugh at them. What would you have them put in that "wasted" space? Ads?
Probably, like cast credits, they would put the Spanish or French descriptions.
Dont give them ideas! That aside - I will just take the old style TV Guide style descriptions and maybe better accuracy or even IMDB descriptions. I dont need bloviating adjectives, voted upon stars are good enough.
Speaking of bad/useless descriptions and Spanish/French descriptions, I wish there was a way I could tell my TiVo yo no hablo español when searching. For example, did you know that not only was Helen Hunt in Twister, she was in the Spanish-dubbed version as well? I know, shocking, right? She's in the French-dubbed version too, but I really have no desire to see Tornade. Thanks, though.
Ooh, Tornade--sounds like the sexy version with lots of bikini briefs and Speedos . . . .
OK, you've convinced me, I'll watch! B-)
No hyjack meant but, ooma takes care if the phone thing just fine!
I will look into this. The slow erosion of MRV was more atrophy than intent. TiVo Desktop was EOL almost 5 years ago. TTG and TTCB were not actively removed, but they definitely became unsupported at some point. I don't know the full chronology, but I can guarantee it was not done as part of some master plan. Let me see what I can find out.