Problem With First Run Option

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by dtivofan23, Aug 28, 2007.

  1. dtivofan23

    dtivofan23 TiVo addict

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    Nov 3, 2004
    My Tivo Keeps Recording Reruns When I Have My Season Pass Set To First Run Only. It Did This With A Couple Shows From Sci Fi And With Monk From Usa.

    I Am Using A Tivo Hd. I Previously Owned A Directv Tivo And Never Had These Problems. Any Help With This Will Be Greatly Appreciated.
     
  2. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2001
    Northern...
    If your previous TiVo never did this before you must not have had season passes for long on USA (or Comedy Central). Both channels, and to a lesser extent Sci-Fi, are notorious for providing incomplete or missing guide data.

    When that happens the TiVo (any TiVo) treats those episodes as First Run because the people who designed it apparently feel that, when it can't tell if a show is new or not, it is better to record it and risk getting a repeat rather than skipping it and risk missing a new episode.


    That said, I do wish there was an option to override behavior either on a TiVo wide or per-season pass basis.
     
  3. JimSpence

    JimSpence Just hangin'

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    Regarding the use of caps on the first word of the OPs post. I believe this is caused by the forum software if you post using ALL caps. A question to the OP. Did you originally post using ALL caps?
     
  4. hummingbird_206

    hummingbird_206 Retired

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    Valley of...
    I'm having the same problem with my Series 3 and also didn't have it with the old TiVo. When I look at the To Do list, there are tons of repeats scheduled even though my season pass is set for first run only. A check of the guide listings shows that the episodes are repeats, so don't know why the TiVo isn't recording properly. I've had this problem on ESPN-HD, ESPN2-HD and TNTHD that I can remember for sure.
     
  5. dtivofan23

    dtivofan23 TiVo addict

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    Nov 3, 2004
    Ofcourse there are instaces where the guide data is incorrect but i checked the guide data and the orginal air date was last week. besides the original air date is there something else tivo uses to identify a first run from repeat?

    i recorded these same shows with my cable co. crappy dvr and it picked up only new epidoses this is why i am kinda surprised the tivo cannot.

    once again any help on the situation would be greatly appreciated.
     
  6. mchips

    mchips TiVo Fanatic

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    Like Jonathan said, it's because TiVo can't determine for sure that these episodes are indeed repeats, therefore it records them to be on the safe side, because most people, myself included, feel it is better to have a repeat recorded that can easily be deleted or removed from the To Do List rather than have a missed first-run episode that cannot be re-recorded.

    If you're looking at the "R" in the description, that's not 100% accurate, as often there are new episodes that carry this "R" from the guide data when they are actually first-run episodes, therefore TiVo uses another unseen ID in the guide data. TiVo also can't rely on the Original Air Date, because that is not always accurate either, often displaying the air date of the first episode that ever aired rather than the correct date.

    Often, these programs will have a very generic description in the guide data instead of specific episode descriptions.

    So, it's not so much a problem as by design... people with "crappy cable co. DVRs" often complain about missed first-run episodes... I'd personally much rather be getting a few repeats than missing first-run episodes.
     
  7. dtivofan23

    dtivofan23 TiVo addict

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    Nov 3, 2004
    ok so im now convinced my tivo hd is defective. none of my season passes set for first run are recording correctly. there all recording repeates.

    if i exchange my tivo can i just reinstall my cable cards again or will it require another visit form a tech and reactivation by my cable co.?
     
  8. Arcady

    Arcady Stargate Fan

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    Oct 14, 2004
    Philadelphia...
    If the TiVo hasn't seen the show in the last 28 days, it thinks it is new. A new TiVo will record a lot of repeats.
     
  9. mchips

    mchips TiVo Fanatic

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    First, are you sure the repeats aren't being recorded as Suggestions... Suggestions will record repeats, regardless of how your SPs are set up. Do you have folders turned on, and do you have a Suggestions folder in your Now Playing List, and are any of the repeats in that folder.

    Do you have any WishLists set up, that could possibly be recording them as well?

    I highly doubt it's defective, but you have to do what you feel you have to do, and if you're thinking about taking your TiVo HD back anyway, I'd recommend performing a Clear & Delete Everything first, then try setting up your SPs again....

    > Messages & Settings > Restart or Reset System > Clear & delete everything

    You're going to have to reset them all up again anyway if you return the box, and if it's a guide data issue in your area, you're going to have the same problem with the new box, so might as well try restoring everything back to factory default on the box you have and then resetting everything back up...

    However,

    You could even try rerunning Guided Setup first... but before that, delete all of your SPs and any manual recordings... then rerun Guided Setup. If that doesn't resolve the problem, then try the Clear & delete everything.

    As far as the CCs, if you return the box, they will have to be reauthorized/paired on the new box, but it depends on the cable provider if they will send out another tech or not. They should be able to reauthorize and pair them over the phone, but it seems most providers aren't willing to do that and instead will want to send out a technician to do it.

    If you're willing to provide me with your zip code, I can check the guide data in your area to see if that's the problem...
     
  10. mchips

    mchips TiVo Fanatic

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    Sorry, but this isn't true... it still looks for identifying data of whether it's a repeat or not, and should not be recording a lot of repeats if First-Run is selected, unless the guide data doesn't clearly identify it as a repeat.

    The 28-day rule only comes into effect if the same episode is aired more than once in a 28-day period, then it won't record it regardless of whether First-Run or Repeats is selected. The 28-day rule should not cause repeats to be recorded, unless All With Duplicates is selected.

    It does not think it's new just because it hasn't seen it within the past 28 days. But if it has seen it within the past 28 days, it will flag it as a repeat and not record it (if First-Run is selected), regardless of whether the guide data identifies it as a repeat or not.
     
  11. dtivofan23

    dtivofan23 TiVo addict

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    Nov 3, 2004
    i do have folders and suggestions on and no its not recording them as suggestions. its recording them as season pass recordings.

    as i said i have owned a tivo in the past and did not have these many issues.

    who knows maybe the guide data for nyc is screwed up but this is frustrating. coupled with the pixelating issues its not looking good for me remaining a tivo customer.
     
  12. mchips

    mchips TiVo Fanatic

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    Midwest
    Sorry you seem to be having problems... it just goes along with being an early adopter of a new piece of electronics equipment...

    TiVoPony has stated that the "macroblocking" issues are only affecting a small number of users, mainly those with Scientific-Atlanta CCs, and a fix for this is due out any day now. Many people have stated they are not having any problems with their TiVo HDs, so this issue is not affecting everyone.

    Anyway, feel free to either take our advice, or do whatever you feel you need to do... we're just trying to help... you can take it or leave it...

    I understand it can be frustrating, which is why many people wait to buy new electronics, not just TiVo's, when they first come out... no amount of beta testing will be able to catch all possible issues that can arise until the product is put out into the general public at large... there are just too many possible variations that a company cannot account for them all. TiVo has been responding very quickly to these issues.

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do...
     
  13. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    Northern...
    The previous poster was almost correct. The data the TiVo looks at (aside from some hidden info that tells if whether the guide data is complete) is the Original Air Date (OAD) field.

    Based on a little test I ran, the TiVo will consider a show First Run for up to 28 days after the OAD. (Unless of course it has already recorded it, then any additional airings would be Duplicates, not First Run).


    So it is possible for a correctly operating, brand new, TiVo with a First Run Only season pass to record additional airing of episodes that first aired almost a month ago. (Of course for that to happen the channel would need to be airing repeats throughout the month, but many of the cable channels do).


    Once it gets those recorded (or you cancel the recordings from the ToDo list) FRO will work more like you expect, and (guide data permitting) won't record episodes you've already watched.
     
  14. Dr_Diablo

    Dr_Diablo Dr_Diablo

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    You might have a look at your " To do List" check to see if there are dups of any programs you may already have...
     
  15. mchips

    mchips TiVo Fanatic

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    Yeah, I guess this is true, to a point, regarding the 28-day rule. I may have misunderstood what that poster was saying.

    If a first-run episode is recording several times within a 28-day period, and hasn't been recorded yet, then, yes, TiVo will consider that a new episode for the month. But you will still only get one episode of that program, not several repeats. A new episode is considered new for the month, which is beneficial when conflicts occur, as then it will grab a repeat airing of that episode.

    I guess we need more information from the OP... i.e., is the OP getting multiple recordings of the same episode, or just one, and if so, is it a new episode within the past 28 days, or is it from months or years ago.

    I agree the problem could be that the OP may have already seen these episodes two weeks ago before getting the TiVo HD, but since it's still within the 28-day window of its first airing, TiVo will still consider it a First-Run episode. To the OP, if this is the case, then your box would be working as designed. Hopefully that's all it is...


    Not necessarily true, as many of the repeats that get recorded have just very generic data for the episode with an OAD of the very first episode of the very first season of that program... If it went by the OAD, it would not record it because the OAD would signify it as a repeat, but it does still record it, because new episodes can also have very generic data for the description with an OAD of the very first episode ever for the series, therefore TiVo records it to be on the safe side, because it could be, and often is, a new episode as well.

    No one really knows exactly what TiVo is using to identify it as a repeat, just that it errs on the side of caution so as not to miss new episodes.
     
  16. mchips

    mchips TiVo Fanatic

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    Good point, and if repeats are scheduled to be recorded in the OP's To Do List, what is the OAD and episode description...
     
  17. Dr_Diablo

    Dr_Diablo Dr_Diablo

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    Nope, the cards are paired to your current Tivo... I know cause I had hoped the same as you, but nooooooooooo...

    Plus the Host ID # changes when introduced to another device other than the one first paired with...

    Had mine paired today to the Serious 3 from the THD
    I had for three weeks an returned...
     
  18. yokimbo

    yokimbo New Member

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    Phoenix...
    One simple solution for TiVo would be to do what Cox did for their DVRs (OMG! Cox did something right!?!). It's the only feature I miss from that piece of junk DVR. You can set them up to record every week day (or weekend or every day) in a time slot.

    TiVo runs Linux right? So I'm guessing recordings queue off of cron jobs, which are very flexible. If TiVo expanded their interface, they could let you chose which days and times to start each program. Then mis-marked re-runs wouldn't be a problem. (And then I wouldn't get five recordings of the Daily Show on Mondays. I'd get one just like I do Tuesday - Thursday.)
     
  19. mchips

    mchips TiVo Fanatic

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    If I'm understanding you correctly, TiVo already can do that, and, actually, that's just the old VCR-way of doing things...

    TiVo's SPs got away from doing that for very good reasons... TiVo SPs record the program/show, not the time-slot, which is great if the program/show moves to another day or time, as TiVo will follow it, or for programs on cable that repeat the same episode several times per week or month (for when conflicts with other program arise)... can't do that with VCRs and most cable co. DVRs...

    But, if you still want to record the old VCR-way, you can do it via a manual recording:

    > Find Programs > Record by Time or Channel > Manually Record Time/Channel

    Then you can select One Time or Repeating.

    With Repeating, you can select Every M-F, Every Day, or for just a specific day of the week. The one thing you can't do is select every weekend, but that can easily be done by creating one for Sat, and one for Sun.

    Then just select the channel and start/end times.
     
  20. yokimbo

    yokimbo New Member

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    May 7, 2007
    Phoenix...
    Doh! That's what I get for not exploring my TiVo enough. Thanks for the "old school" tip. It sucks that we have these awesome TiVos, yet have to resort to using archaic methods. If the show information were tagged correctly, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Who fills in the show information?
     

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