Premier HDMI not valid?

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by Stormydog, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. Stormydog

    Stormydog Member

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    Oct 13, 2010
    I Installed my Tivo Premier XL in February. Comcast cable went all digital in March. I am still getting many messages relating to channel changes and Comcast either doesnt know they are happening or cant keep up with them. I tried to get a list of channels I receive and the changes keep coming.

    That is not my issue though. My Premier is hooked up to my 52" Toshiba LCD (since February) via the HDMI cable and has worked watching live HD tv and recording HD shows. Been able to view recorded shows - no problems.

    Today, I turn on my Tivo and get this message:
    "The TV or audio receiver is not compatible with HDCP rights management standards. Unplug the HDMI cable between the DVR and the TV or audio receiver.
    Use the supplied component video cable instead to connect video from the DVR to the TV..."


    Can anyone explain what has changed to cause this? Last night everything was fine, today I can not watch live TV, cannot view recorded shows.
     
  2. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    This is just a guess (based on no experience with HDMI whatsoever except what I've read), but it sounds like either

    1. the HDMI cable has gone bad or one (or both) of the jacks it plugs into have gone bad or it's not fully seated in one or both jacks.

    This, I'm surmising, is making the TiVo think it's not being told by the television "Yes, I am fully HDCP compliant", even though the television is attempting to send that signal.

    or

    2. Something has actually gone wrong in the television set and it's not sending the compliance signal/handshake that it used to send.

    If your television has inputs other than HDMI, find the right kind of cable and try those to see if the television is working at all.

    One other possibility, your television set has an HDMI jack but isn't and never was fully HDCP compliant and it's only now that your cable company has turned on the flags that have a problem with that.

    (or else there's a secret "no viewing of this program allowed, ever" flag built into the HDCP specs and your cable company accidentally activated it)

    You might try turning off the TiVo (drill down in the menus until you find "restart" and after the 3 thumbs down have the power cord where it plugs into the wall socket in one have and hit enter on the remote with the other, and as soon as the screen blanks pull the plug), doing whatever the recommended procedure to get to the point where it's safe to unplug the television from the wall socket and unplugging it, and then disconnect the HDMI cable and inspect it and the jacks for anything wrong, and then after an hour or so, re-connect the HDMI cable (maybe swap ends) and then power up the television and then the TiVo. If it doesn't help, at least it shouldn't hurt.
     
  3. gothaggis

    gothaggis Member

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    Mar 3, 2010
    i've had this problem happen to me serveral times (hdmi cables shouldn't 'go bad' btw) - it seems to happen if I turn on my tv / receiver in a different combination than normal.....the last time this happened i just turned off my tv then turned it back on again and everything was back to normal. didn't have to mess with the tivo at all.
     
  4. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    Happens to me about 50% of the time, I just change the TV input than go back to the HDMI input and all is then working.
    I guess it worth paying with this inconvenience to stop all the digital copying that not (or should I say is) happening because of this great protection the government has given digital HDTV. ;)
     
  5. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Neither should any other kind, but...





    ...stuff, as they say, happens.
     
  6. Stormydog

    Stormydog Member

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    Oct 13, 2010
    I got it to work again, but after losing about 2 hours because I didnt know what to do. My first step was to unplug the Tivo. Unfortunetly, both tuners were recording and I hate to unplug the unit like this, but I wanted it to work darn it. That didnt acomplish anything except interrupt the recordings.

    I did some more research as I was fumming and really mad at Tivo by then. Figured Tivo updated something and screwed it up. Found reference to a similar message and it explained the handshaking needed to display HD. I shut TV and Tivo off, removed HDMI cable from TV and reattached. Turned on and been working ever since.

    Have no idea what happened, but something caused this handshaking to stop. I do have a S2 attached and many times change my input to use it while both tuners on Premier XL are recording because you can not watch live tv on Premier. Usually I watch recorded shows, but could not do that with this problem.

    Unitron you are correct and in the correct areas as per the problem. In my case, the TV was fine, Tivo was fine, cable was fine. But something hiccupped and lost the ability to communicate. Maybe switching inputs and order turn on/off units has a lot to do with it. Maybe a little power outage from utility co?

    Bottom line, I know more about this and know how to handle in the future. Thanks for all your advise and help.
     
  7. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    In the future if the Tivo is recording shows, let it continue. Unplug the HDMI cable from both ends and power cycle the TV (actually unplug it). Or maybe unplug the TV and then disconnect both ends of the HDMI cable.

    Then re-connect your expensive treat everybody like a thief cable and then plug the TV back in and see if you get handshook without having to stop recording.
     
  8. Dr_Diablo

    Dr_Diablo Dr_Diablo

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    Tivo tech told me today they are aware an the soon to be dropped update will fix this issue, yeah rite

    I get that nag screen nearly 50% of the time when channel surfin, it's more an annoyance, yet was told this will be corrected in the next update
     
  9. Stormydog

    Stormydog Member

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    Oct 13, 2010
    Thanks for the update. I promise, I will not hold my breath.

    Since then I have not had any problems with Internet connection or screen blacking or green circles or HDMI signals!
     
  10. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    Houston
    Just install a component video cable and be rid of the HDMI big brother DRM BS.

    Do you really need permission to watch each show you already paid for?
     
  11. Stormydog

    Stormydog Member

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    Oct 13, 2010
    JCThorne, you are absolutely right.
    If it becomes a constant problem I will go to those cables, but would rather keep the HDMI going, so we will see. If I can not rely on using HDMI, then I may as well go back to SD menus on the Tivo. Then I have a very expensive Tivo that you have to go backward with the features to use it reliably. Loved and still loving my old S2.
     
  12. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    Houston
    Don't know why you say you need to go back to SD menus, the Tivo Premiere is a fully functional 1080p HD device using the component cables, just without the DRM overlay that YOU dont need or want, just big brother. For YOU there is no advantage to HDMI other than one less than reliable connection vs 4 reliable ones.

    HDMI is not a feature, it does not improve anything for the user. Its an improvement only for those that wish to conrol your viewing rights.

    Quite the opposite is true. Many lower end consumer electronics devices are deleting component video connections to save cost. Tivo thought wisely enough to include the feature, avail yourself of its capability.
     
  13. Stormydog

    Stormydog Member

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    Oct 13, 2010
    This is good to know. I thought HDMI was the only way to get the best video and audio signals. I thought even composite (and S-Video) were inferior and the difference would be somewhat noticable.

    I am not saying I need to go back to SD menus, but with my lack of understanding, thought if I had to go back to a more inferior signal, it would not handle HD as well so to avoid problems, simplify everything.

    Thanks for the insight for the DMR control BS.
     
  14. Davelnlr_

    Davelnlr_ N5GGG

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    North...
    Composite (Yellow) and S-Video are inferior (they are SD only).

    Component (RGB) is analog HD capable.
    DVI is digital HD capable.
    HDMI is digital HD capable.
     
  15. Dr_Diablo

    Dr_Diablo Dr_Diablo

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    I've used the HDMI connection since introduced without any problems...

    As is the case with many of the ongoing issues, I fear that the Tivo's software is the root cause
     
  16. DeWitt

    DeWitt Member

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    Saratoga...
    HDMI is just problematic if all the pieces in the chain don't play nice. Blame the copy protection that insists on handshakes between devices. With my last TV I would regularly get not allowed messages and have to pull the cord. Since upgrading to a newer panasonic plasma and a Yamaha receiver for switching I have never seen an issue. Same Tivo Same software/hardware.

    Component certainly is a good solution if your particular combination is problematic.
     
  17. Stormydog

    Stormydog Member

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    Oct 13, 2010
    Davelnlr: I used the wrong word in my reply. I did mean to say "I thought Component (and S-video) were inferior", not composite. I knew there was a step ladder of connections with differing qualities. I just thought every one stepped up with HDMI being the best. But seems it is just a way to get DRM in the way.

    I was not aware that component was analog HD. So between HDMI and component, are you saying I would not notice any difference in picture quality, as in too minute to notice?

    I stated earlier I have not had any problems since.....until just last night. Went to turn TV and Tivo on and all I got was a black screen. This time no message. Went back to my old S2 just to watch TV. Unplugged Premier two times and unplugged HDMI cable and finally, had to turn TV off/on before it started working.

    Dewitt, I agree with you. Symptomatic.
     
  18. wmelnick

    wmelnick New Member

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    Sep 28, 2007
    No, yuu very well may see a difference between HDMI and Component input. With HDMI the signal stays digital right to the point where you see it on the monitor. With component you are converting from Digital to Analog in the TiVo then sending that analog signal along wires inside the tivo, through connectors, through more wire, through another set of connectors and into the TV. Each one of these is a chance for degradation of the analog signal.

    Whether you personally see a difference I cannot say, but the best you can say is that the potentially are the same, but there are many things that can make component worse.

    W
     
  19. Dr_Diablo

    Dr_Diablo Dr_Diablo

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    Midwest
    I used HDMI with my S3 an don't recall the nag screen pertaining to the HDMI connection not valid until I started using the Premiere..

    Personally, I really can't tell any difference between HDMI and the component cables, just less mess to deal with...

    I like it simple, plug an pray, like the PS3...:confused:
     
  20. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    Houston
    Too many variables to call this one. Have seen many cases where HDMI was indeed far worse than component video between the same two devices. I would also offer that DRM and its headaches are worse than not having them giving component an advantage from the start. HDMI is much more limiting in length of cable before degradation sets in and the connections are far less reliable/robust if there is ANY movement or vibration of either component or the cables. We NEVER use HDMI for connections when installing theater systems on ships or offshore platforms for just this reason. HDMI is also much more prone to interference from radio frequency communications equipment.

    The user should try both and see for himself. Very likley he will see no difference in qualtiy.
     

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